If you sit this one out ( Joy Reid on Platner )

[4bonhoffer]

Jesus h mother f’ing Christ. How did staying at home because Kamala wasn’t perfect enough on every single issue work out for you? These insane a-holes aren’t just destroying our democracy, they’re destroying your children and grandchildren’s planet.
And you’re going to stay home because you didn’t get your preferred candidate? WTF, WTF. WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU !!

It’s going to take decades to recover from this current mess and you want to extend it. !?

A Randi Rhodes used to say, you fall in love during the primaries but you fall in line for the general election. It’s gotta be vote blue… I have voted for democratic candidates that weren’t my cup of tea because any democratic candidate is better than any republican. Yes we’ve had really abysmal candidates but if you haven’t learned by now that staying home is a vote for republicans then you’re beyond help. Jesus Christ, if you’re don’t think things can get worse then you’re delusional.

[gab13by13]

1. Kamala Harris won the election

If Democrats don't understand that Magats have to cheat to win then we are in serious trouble.

It's a shame you believe our candidates, plural, were abysmal.

[stopdiggin]

11. Um. NO, she did NOT !

And repeating long since discredited nonsense ...
Serves neither us, nor any reasonable - or democratic - cause.

Wirh respect - please stop.

[gab13by13]

15. Who discredited it?

Answer me just one question, why did Krasnov get vote surges on election day only in the swing states? In no other state did this statistic happen. Experts are out there that show that what happened on election day was an anomaly.

What cause am I hurting, that Republicans cheat to win elections?

Gore won if election law were followed.
Kerry won if votes from Ohio were not routed to a warehouse in Tennessee and flipped.

Republicans cheat to win elections and claims that they don't is the problem.

Do not tell me to stop speaking the truth, you are going to have to kick me off DU, I say what I believe.

Someone just posted an OP written by Miles Taylor who is warning us about how Krasnov plans to steal the next election. Miles Taylor is not a conspiracy theorist, Republicans cheat, alert on me for saying that.

[Scubamatt]

27. I am a suspicious type,

and I agree with you that something about those swing states surges AND Elon's rush to get access to databases after the election stinks to high heaven. I wish our side would have investigated this, but they didn't and now I think that ship has sailed without hard proof. It's time that we LEARN/ACCEPT that Republicans always cheat and so we have to be smart about building defensive strategies, exposing their chicanery (closing polling stations, limiting hours, gerrymandering) and cultivating energetic candidates who will PUBLICLY FIGHT for as progressive an agenda as possible for that particular community, all the while accepting that not every community will vote for a Mamdani, so we have to have a "vote blue no matter who" attitude.

[gab13by13]

36. I wish that Bob Casey had called for an audit,

not sure if the audit would have revealed anything but he was entitled to.

[ms.pamela]

70. Unfortunately, there is hard proof, but nothing was done.

All this information has been up on BlueSky for months not conspiracy theories either, just mathematical facts. An internal audit within our government found problems shortly after the election. Why the Biden Administration did not do anything about it probably amounted to the same reason Garland failed to act in a timely manner investigating trump's treasonous crimes, he did not want to inflame the trump cult. Garland is also a member of the Federalist Society. Elon Musk, Plantair(Peter Thiel) and Clarence Thomas's rich buddy did some electronic manipulation with the voting machines utilizing low flying Starlink satellites. A person I know who does computer programing for Apple told me that there are ways to change electronic votes with no telltale signs. After all Musk's own son told trump he wasn't the real president on live TV. Musk's former girlfriend recently admitted to Musk's voter manipulation online. The numbers don't lie, too many of the same percentages within all 7 swing states were extremely unlikely (almost impossible). People I know who work with numbers said the same thing after the election about the percentage of winning votes in all 7 states. Now we are all paying a very high price for this manipulation and it can be done again.

[wnylib]

77. I fault Garland for not being aggressive and quick enough

in his investigations. But the false rumor about him being a member of the Federalist Society has been around for a couple years, even here on DU. When I see that in a post, it makes me skeptical about everything else in the post.

[blue_jay]

78. I fault him for being complicit n/t

[stopdiggin]

28. virtually EVERYONE that isn't/wasn't

a hair on fire conspiracy nutter. Oh .. and incidentally, that 'everyone' included every election official, expert, observer - or anyone esle with the slightest bit of credibility to offer - also including both the campaign and party apparstus.

So - you can keep trying to sell this bunk (although we really wish you WOULDN'T - but you are clearly, and consistently, opposing solid evidence and justified opinion.

[ITAL]

31. Not true

No state shifted toward Harris, basically everywhere shifted right...not just swing states. Nationwide the average shift was one point to the GOP, but looking at the graph some of the biggest shifters were California, New York, and New Jersey.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/63/Presidential_Election_Results_Swing_by_State_from_2020_to_2024.svg

[gab13by13]

37. Apples and oranges, that's not what I posted.

Reread it.

[ITAL]

43. If every state shifted right

It makes total sense that Trump won every swing state, given they were all really close to begin with four yeas prior...and four years before that. There is nothing suspicious. If things are close and they all break a certain way...it's not unreasonable that even a slight nudge makes them all fall one direction.

As I said, even really blue places shifted right. Why wouldn't a state that was decided by 11K votes or 50K votes similarly shift right.

[gab13by13]

47. There were surges for Trump later in the day on election day

but only surges in swing states.

[ITAL]

48. No there weren't

It's not like you count votes at 1pm and then at 7pm. They begin counting when the polls close.


This sounds like Republicans talking about surges in mail-in voting.

[ananda]

73. Obama won because Anonymous unhacked Ohio.

Republicans really do have to cheat to win.

[Kaleva]

74. Anomalies aren't proof

Why didn’t the Obama or Biden Administrations investigate election fraud? What is the truth in regards to that? Do you think that itself is worth investigating?

My guess is that if you find the answer to that, you’ll find the answers to all the other questions.

[Lategame]

25. Thank you

Republicans say this every time they lose. Hate seeing us replicate their playbook.

[gab13by13]

39. Did Al Gore lose or did the Supreme Court pick the president?

The IT person who routed the Ohio votes to a warehouse in Tennessee where votes were flipped to Shrub admitted he did the programming.

He was on a small plane to DC to testify when his plane crashed, Kerry lost.

There were anomalies on election day Harris/Trump. There were surges in votes for Trump on election day but only surges in the swing states. Experts are on record describing how this was rigged, I'm no computer expert.

There are valid reasons for Democrats to scream bloody murder when there is evidence to reveal tampering.

When Republicans claim fraud they have no evidence, do you see the difference?

I'm old enough to remember Karl Rove's first candidate who he was campaign manager for. In a tight race in Texas Rove pulled strings and got the FBI to pay a visit to Rove's candidate's opponent. No charges or crimes were ever claimed but just having the FBI visit the Democrat's house swung the race for the Republican.

Republicans have been rigging elections for as long as this soon to be 79 year old can remember.

[progressoid]

52. Al Gore lost his home state of Tennessee!

If he had won Tennessee, he would have secured the presidency without Florida. So yes, he lost.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_United_States_presidential_election_in_Tennessee

https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2000/11/14/tennessee-blues-how-gore-lost-his/

[TBF]

56. Two things can be true at the same time. nt

[DemocracyForever]

63. Nader lost his home state of Connecticut

This is nothing more than typical Nader apologist guilt. It was Nader's big lie and $5 million GOP funded tv ad campaign promoting Nader's big lie that there were no differences between Al Gore and W that was run in critical battleground states like Florida along with Nader being in Miami the weekend before the 2000 election that made it possible for W to get close enough in Florida to have his little brother, Florida campaign co-chair and GOP controlled SCOTUS steal the election for him by blocking the counting of 160,000 legally cast ballots that are located in the largest and most heavily democratic voting counties in Florida.

[MadameButterfly]

71. Gore won. Has nothing to do with Tennessee

There's no rule you have to win your home state. A full recount of FLorida would have given him the win, the the Repuclicans, especially on the Supreme Court knew it. imagine Trump accepting a ruling that you can't recount a state he lost that was that close.

[DemocracyForever]

61. No comparison between 2000 and 2024

because 160,000 legally cast Florida ballots located in the largest and most heavily democratic voting counties from the 2000 election currently sit uncounted in the Florida archives. There's no such group of uncounted ballots for a decisive state sitting uncounted concerning the 2024 election.

[TBF]

59. ...

[questionseverything]

76. Congratulations on your 13th post

[OMGWTF]

45. Oh please! T💩p and Eloon fking BRAGGED about stealing the election.

Remember -- "I don't even need your vote because Eloon has the "magic" computer" and Eloon on camera wondering how much prison time he'd get if T💩p lost.

[BComplex]

18. Kamala did win. Trump said they messed with the "computers". Elon Musk said they

did. Elon's son said they did. But democrats don't want to believe it NOR fight it. That's why we are in the mess we are in.

This is one thing people on both sides of the aisle believe in: elections are not secure. So why is it so hard to actually wrap peoples' minds around the fact that not one single computer in the whole world is immune from hacking?

It boggles the mind. Let's insure that the internet access to the tabulators over the internet are sent other ways without the internet as well (double or triple verification), and every vote counting machine's programming is locked down after forensic inspections by both parties have certified each machine.

Lots of work, true, but any computerized machine should be checked before each election anyway, right?

[MichMan]

40. Do you usually believe that Trump and Musk statements are truthful?

[returnee]

79. I do. n/t

[beaglelover]

41. She did not. This is conspiracy theory BS and should not be allowed in this forum.

[SCantiGOP]

46. Agre 100%

Conspiracy crap like this on DU makes the entire site, and all of us, look like idiots.

[Celerity]

55. No she did not. Please stop posting this election denialism CT as you are

attacking the Biden/Harris administration and the Harris campaign.

They had access to hundreds (thousands?) of lawyers and thousands (tens of thousands?) of professional campaign workers and observers up and down the levels, from the vety top down to extremely local bottom. They found nothing worth pursuing in terms of the election being rigged/stolen.

The continuing CT claims on DU that it was still rigged/stolen means that people making said claims are relying on a logical construct that posits Biden and Harris and all their massive legal and observational structures were completely incompetent and/or in on the rigging/stealing themselves. That logical path needed to continue these CT claims is utter garbage and the CT-pushing denialism needs to be binned.

Just stop it, please. It is a terrible look for our board and our Party.

[BComplex]

57. So you don't remember all the bomb threats? All the purging of voters?

I really question why people are so willing to believe the theory that election integrity is so sacrosanct that we should always believe the republicans act in good faith! They. Do. Not. They. Cheat.

With something that is so totally crucial to trillions of dollars of possible grift, we should just wobble along with elections that make absolutely no sense.

[Celerity]

66. The CT pushers I am referring to are focusing on some grand scheme (often invoking Musk or some other techno villian)

wherein the vote tallies from every close state were altered somehow, even the close run states that had Democrats in control and/or oversight of said elections.

The pushers of that specific grand CT theory are thus not only attacking the Biden administration and the Harris campaign but also all those state level Dem officials as well.

I am not at all talking about people who discuss the obvious and real Rethug multi-decades old systemic models of voter supression, voter roll purging, voter initimidation, RW gerrymandering/legislative shitbaggery, etc etc.

[Chemical Bill]

81. Republicans have won by cheating for decades.

We need to yell that from the rooftops until it stops.

[RandySF]

2. I don't think anyone here is going to sit out

but we do need to think outside ourselves a bit when backing primary candidates in less politically secure locations.

[QueerDuck]

5. Yes. We need a candidate who can win in swing-states and R+5 states...

... the "perfect" candidate who can win an deep blue states is NOT actually perfect if they cannot get enough votes in the Electoral College. It sucks but it's the only system we have for now, and in the foreseeable future.

Let's hope that the fringe folks and other saboteurs who previously advocated for "vote undecided in the primary (and never return for the general)" along with the famous "leave-it-blank" advocates (whom I'll never forgive and never trust) will keep their mouths shut.

[EYESORE 9001]

3. So far today I've seen

a comparison to insanity in the ‘doing the same thing & expecting different results’ meaning of the word - along with admonition to ‘move beyond the rump years’. If I sit out anything, it’ll be DU if this becomes a prevailing narrative.

[gab13by13]

8. It doesn't inspire progressive Democrats does it

if the thought process is that only moderates can win in swing districts?

I tried to argue against putting labels on Democrats but was silenced. How about we nominate the candidate who is the best fighter?

Say what you want about Platner but he created a movement in Maine, people of all stripes including Magats were behind him. I understand he had to drop out but it wasn't because of his platform. Maine better think long and hard about nominating someone who is similar, policy-wise to Platner.

[MIButterfly]

4. Thank you

My sentiments exactly. I always said "primary is for you want; general is for who you got." I like the Randi Rhodes phrase better.

As my mother used to say "the worst Democrat is better than the best Republican" and these days, there's no such thing as a "best" Republican.

Many years ago, we had a Democratic candidate for governor that I absolutely could not stand. I didn't know what to do. I couldn't vote for the Republican and I couldn't not vote, so I ended up casting my ballot for the Democratic Party. I usually like to vote for each Dem individually but that time I voted for the party, which included him, but I didn't have to specify him.

[SocialDemocrat61]

6. Democrats won't be staying home and

don't stay home. It's Green party members and certain independents that stay home to teach the Democratic Party a lesson. But how did that work out in 2000, 04, 10, 16 and 24?

[gab13by13]

9. Gore won, Kerry won

Russia caused Hillary to lose, Kamala won.

I don't blame Democrats, Democrats won all of those elections you cited if Republicans don't cheat, and they are planning on cheating again.

[PatSeg]

32. I wish I could say you're wrong

But that is the ongoing trend that I've seen. Republicans will do anything to win. They think they're entitled and when they don't get their way, they throw tantrums and accuse their opponents of cheating.

Of course when they accuse Democrats of cheating it is because that is what THEY would do. Winning is everything to them.

[TBF]

58. I agree - and it boggles the mind that democrats

don't challenge these results. I was livid that Kamala headed off to Hawaii without saying a word. I will never believe that Trump won every swing state, especially with the way the votes shifted so quickly in each one. And even with the Russian interference, Hillary would've won with Bernie as VP.

The one thing we need above all is secure elections. I don't believe we'll have that until Citizens United is overruled (to take out the PAC money), and the machines are fortified. IDK the best way, I'm not a computer expert either. Perhaps we go back to handwritten votes that are videotaped when counted. There has to be a way to secure things, because Republicans cheat whenever they can get away with it.

[RetiredParatrooper]

7. Indeed

[FakeNoose]

10. I understand your anger, but we have to find ways to bring in the independent voters

... and also the infrequent and disengaged voters. Most of the Democrats that I know are already engaged and we/they would never think of sitting home on election day. The problem is that the commitment of Democratic Party members isn't enough, there are way too many Americans who are not paying attention. They're not making this election a priority, but it SHOULD BE a priority.

Screaming and ranting isn't a good way to get them engaged. Talking sensibly, and listening to them with sincerity and (sometimes) humor, getting them to see how it affects them, their friends and their loved ones ... this is how we need to engage with the unreliable voters and non-voters.

When people decide to remain independent, they might have a good reason, or they might not. We don't know, but we should respect that, and ask them to consider the importance of these issues. Derision doesn't work, and yet it's almost the only strategy the MAGAs have.

[stopdiggin]

14. When 'people decide to stay home' ..

In a contest pitting Kamala Harris against Trump

It's because they have their heads lidged firmly up their ass! Full stop. The end

[FakeNoose]

16. No ... it happened when some people decided they couldn't vote for a black woman

... despite her obvious qualifications.

Full stop.

[angrychair]

35. Nope

Some choose not to vote for her because she was praising a war criminal (Dick Cheney), holding hands with a lady that accused Democrats of murdering babies right after they are born (Liz Cheney) and being indifferent to genocide in Gaza.

Apparently the only women some don't believe are being raped by men are the women that have been held prisoner by Israel.

Yes, I voted for her and would again but I understand the mindset.

[The_REAL_Ecumenist]

12. Joy has lost her everloving mind. F*ck her nonsensical BS. She can sit her ass at home but me and EVERYONE I know

are VOTING!! Didn't know she had such a bad mental/substance abuse problem because that's the only thing that explains that trash. Is she trying to become ANOTHER Donna Brazile? This black woman WILL be voting for every Progressive Democratic & Progressive Independent who run for everything from sidewalk cleaner to PRESIDENT.

[gab13by13]

17. At least Donna wrote a sort of mea culpa book about what went on.

Democrats should read her book.

[Icanthinkformyself]

13. I lived in New York

and held my nose, voted for Schumer (no real choice), then went home a took a shower every time I had to do it. I trust the DNC only slightly more than the RNC, of which I have none.

[johnnyplankton]

19. Please explain the Joy Reid reference

[Amaryllis]

20. Thank you. I have no clue what people are talking about. Joy Reid???

[Pompoy]

26. Here

&t=761s

[eShirl]

24. here

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100221365199

[Cirsium]

30. Here it is

On "The Joy Reid Show," the former MSNBC host warned key figures in the party that if they do not replace Platner with an "ideologically similar candidate," voters may stay home on Election Day.

"You need to replace him with somebody who is ideologically the same because that is what was decided. The people of Maine, the Democratic voters of Maine said, 'We want a progressive.' They did not say they want an AIPAC [American Israel Public Affairs Committee] moderate," Reid said. "So, the Democratic Party in Maine ought to pick someone who is ideologically the same or ideologically similar as Platner."

Reid went on to give Maine voters her blessing not to cast their ballot if the Democrats do not select a candidate whose policies are in line with Platner's campaign promises.

"If you don't and the DNC shoves an AIPAC candidate down your throat, you have my permission to not vote for them because the Democratic Party needs to learn that it is not, 'Vote blue no matter who.' It matters who," Reid continued.

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/celebrity/articles/joy-reid-gives-maine-democrats-214210623.html

[PatSeg]

33. Thank you for posting

Her words are not helpful. Might be best to keep her mouth shut as we've seen this movie before. Meanwhile, republicans are thrilled I'm sure.

[angrychair]

42. How so?

The voters of Maine did indeed pick a progressive candidate for senator.

You think it's fine for the state Democratic Party to override the will of the voters and pick a moderate/centerist candidate because that is what he national Party wants?

That is what she is talking about. All she is saying is not to override the will of the people.

Do you think that if they pick a moderate/centerist candidate that Maine voters should just shut up and vote for who the Democratic Party of Maine tells them to vote for?
If so, then what is the difference between them and fascism?

[Quiet Em]

50. Bellows and Jackson are progressive

Shah also seems to have a progressive platform.

These are the top three candidates to replace Platner. There is no reason for Reid to attack any of these three choices. It's bizarre.

[angrychair]

51. I think she is just making a point

Because there has been a lot of vitriol being dumped on progressive candidates and progressives in general.

Even here. I am still seriously considering leaving because I genuinely don't think progressives are welcome here.

[Quiet Em]

53. Her point is premature. The leading candidates are progressive.

I will argue that they are a lot more progressive than Platner claimed to be.

I see the tensions here sometimes between the different spectrums of ideology, but for the most part I think most DUers are united in winning as many elections as possible. Platner has made a freaking mess in what should have been one of our easier seats to flip. His own supporters and volunteers want to move on from him. Mainers Democrats are united in defeating Susan Collins. Nobody needs Joy Reid's premature freak out over something that is not even happening.

[Cirsium]

54. The conundrum

"Blue no matter who" can mean a steady slide to the right and little or no input from the rank and file - we have no leverage. But withholding support from Democrats can just mean that Republicans win. It really is an unsolvable problem - "you can't get there from here."

The system of using primaries to choose the party's candidates came in response to people's frustration with the so-called "smoke-filled rooms" - that is to say, party bosses working opaquely to determine who the candidates would be. In 1968 rank and file Democrats were supporting McCarthy, McGovern, and Bobby Kennedy for president, but the bosses choose Humphrey, or so many people thought.

I think the conundrum could be solved through a system of representative democracy within the party. But of course those with power - money - will always be trying to exercise that power. Just about everything is a matter of shut up and do what the bosses tell you to do, until and unless there are massive changes in the social, economic and political arrangements under which we live.

[PatSeg]

68. I'm not sure what you think I said

You think it's fine for the state Democratic Party to override the will of the voters and pick a moderate/centerist candidate because that is what he national Party wants?

It certainly wasn't THAT.

[angrychair]

69. If I misunderstood

I'm genuinely sorry but I was taking what I thought you meant when you said

Might be best to keep her mouth shut as we've seen this movie before

I voted for VP Harris and would again if she were a candidate in 2028 and I have been a supporter of her for almost 15 years but I'm not ignorant of the valid criticisms of her 2024 campaign.

From her praising of a war criminal (Dick Cheney) to her milquetoast response on Gaza, I sympathize with those that were not willing to vote for her even if I didn't personally agree.

Not to mention insider stock trading...unlimited dark money...insider cryptocurrency trading...just everything that is financial crime for literally every other American except for members of congress.and members of both political parties do it to the tune of millions of dollars.

We need more progressives in Congress, not less.

[eppur_se_muova]

21. Anyone who doesn't think things can get worse can't think. nt

[Scubamatt]

22. Here, Here!

Well stated. Do not stay home. Vote blue, no matter who. Our republic is on the line.

[Joinfortmill]

29. It's worse than being a Republican...

And, lately that's pretty damn bad.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

34. I am glad the Joy Reid is no longer on MS NOW

Here latest demand may help re-elect Collins

[angrychair]

38. Yet another post that attacks progressives

Yet even the slightest of criticism toward moderates/centrists for their positions and the hammer comes down.

As far as I can tell the first requirement for a centrist is that the candidate be white, male, CIS and Christian.
Apparently women, people of color and LGBTQIA+ people need not apply in their world view.

Apparently insider stock trading is fine

Unlimited corporate PAC money is fine.

Endless wars and death in the ME is fine.

Unlimited data centers is fine.

Billionaires and trillionaires are fine

Unlimited police power is fine

Crypto bros and pump and dump coins are fine

Sports betting is fine.

Not having universal healthcare is fine

No family leave is fine

No We The People Act is fine

No privacy protections is fine

No move to protect abortion as healthcare is fine

I say all that because there is nothing in their talking points that wants to change any of that.

I mean, in all seriousness, the ideal candidate, it would seem, for centrists, is John Fetterman.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

72. "Sit out the election to teach Democrats a lesson"

is a "slight criticism"??

[angrychair]

75. Ok

Glad you skipped past the point I was making to focus on that.

While I do hold my nose and vote for Democrats even if I have issues, I understand the mindset of people who do not.

If the choice is between two candidates that both happily support the status quo of insider trading and unlimited dark money and all the other things I listed (or a candidate that only pays lip service to those issues during election cycles but in their 15+ years has never actually done anything to change it) and said person doesn't want to vote for them, I get that too.

Cynicism is hard to overcome as it is but it's even harder to overcome if people don't see any significant difference (while you and I may think that's easy, if your main focus is getting money and graft out of politics but the only two candidates you have to vote for got 75% or more of their donations from PACs and corporations it's hard to make the argument they are fundamentally different).

[gab13by13]

44. What Joy Reid said was wrong, was defeatist,

with that said, Joy didn't do the rest of the podcast and I agree with most of what was said after Joy's terrible remark.

Platner created a movement in Maine, he got all groups of people to back him, including some Magats. The DNC or whoever is refuting that people liked what Platner was saying, they are claiming they only liked the person and that is why Maine must nominate a moderate Democrat.

Maybe I am way off base in analyzing that but I believe that Maine Democrats should replace Platner with someone who is in alignment with Platner's platform, it's what Maine voters want.

However, if that doesn't happen, staying home and not voting is not an option.

[dlk]

49. Terrible Advice

Does Reid understand that when a Democratic Maine (or Texas) voter stays home, they are handing the Susan Collins voter (or Ken Paxton voter) two votes?

How does this do Democrats any good? It only guarantees more of the same, awful Republican governance.

[Akakoji]

60. Another woman

Man hating. Not going to turn out well

[Quiet Em]

62. What are you talking about?

[Snackshack]

64. Regrettably now that we live in this new maga/djt/fox reality.

...of misinformation / disinformation, we need to get back to what reagan like to say, 'trust but verify'.... the only thing I agreed with him on.

Law & Order by accusation only gave us 'Trials by Ordeal' that lasted until just a few 100's yrs ago... we do not want to go back to a system of justice like that.

[QueerDuck]

65. WTF is wrong with her?? She's DEAD to me. She's another Sarandon. Another Nina Turner...

...along with the rest who think it's a good idea to "leave it blank" or "vote uncommited" or "stay home" or "vote third party". She can go fuck herself!

[ImNotGod]

67. Dems hurt my feelings, WAAAH WAAAH, I'm not playing anymore WAAAH

get over it people, the party isn't perfect but it's all we got. Not voting is voting for fascism pure and simple. Even the lowest IQ should be able to figure that out after several very recent examples in our election histories.

[NNadir]

80. Agreed. I voted for Michael Dukakis, involved in ny case with...

...nose holding, but even so, I'm sure it would have been a better world if he'd won.

[Beartracks]

82. Right? Staying home doesn't negate your VOTE. It only means you didn't cast a ballot.

The lack of a ballot still counts as a VOTE for the candidate you really didn't want.

For many, there's often a candidate you think you don't want because they don't match you 100% on your priorities.

But then there's usually a candidate you REALLY don't want, because they don't match you on ANY of your priorities, and who might even want to roll back things that are important to you. THIS is the candidate who, if they're announced as the winner when the polls close after you didn't go cast a ballot, causes you to exclaim, "Well, shit, I really didn't want them to win!"

So unless you are enthusiastically voting FOR a particular candidate, your duty as a voting citizen is to determine which is the candidate you really couldn't stand winning and then go cast a ballot for the other candidate. Yes, this sounds like "voting for the lesser of two evils," because it is, and because democracy is messy. "Not voting" -- that is, not casting a ballot -- still numerically impacts the final tally, but never in the direction you would have preferred.

Even if you stay home, your voting influence does not. Go cast a ballot on every Election Day and make your vote actually count for something.

======================

[warmfeet]

83. Perhaps last chance. Vote yea or nea. NT You want a democratic republic?