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NewHendoLib

(61,956 posts)
Sat Jul 4, 2026, 10:35 PM 23 hrs ago

Here's quite a read, in the Guardian. " America is destroying itself. It's no surprise"

by Stephen Marche

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2026/jul/04/us-history-destruction

Scholars will someday wonder how the richest country in history chose to throw it all away. But the crisis has been there since the beginning

The 250th anniversary of the Declaration of Independence has arrived at a moment of some embarrassment for the Republic. The United States of America, established to overthrow a mad king, has elected, 250 years later, a mad king of its very own. America is setting itself on fire at its birthday party. It always had a dramatic streak.

In 30 or 40 years, scholars of history, if they exist, will want to know how the richest country in history, with the world’s most powerful alliance network, and a scientific and research capacity fuelled by the talent of the world, chose to throw it all away.

I have been closer than most to some kind of answer. For my book The Next Civil War, I interviewed hundreds of experts, trying to fathom the underlying causes and structures of the decline. I met with extremists on the left and right. I argued that the dark dawning was coming. And yet, in some part of me, I didn’t really believe they would do it. The American self-destruction, I can only inform those future historians, is a mystery to us, too.

When did it all go wrong? Most of the researchers into political collapse that I spoke to blamed 2008, the financial crisis that crippled the dream of social mobility, but others brought up 1980, when income inequality first spiked and trust in institutions began to crater, and yet others 1876, the end of reconstruction, and those with even longer memories back to the civil war, or to the War of 1812.

snip

Long read, but very compelling. And yes, depressing.

33 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Here's quite a read, in the Guardian. " America is destroying itself. It's no surprise" (Original Post) NewHendoLib 23 hrs ago OP
I'd say 9/11 Bristlecone 23 hrs ago #1
I'd say the SCOTUS theft of the 2000 election Coventina 22 hrs ago #2
I've always that RFK's assassination was a big turning point. Blasphemer 22 hrs ago #3
yup Skittles 22 hrs ago #4
The end of the Civil War was mishandled badly -misanthroptimist 22 hrs ago #5
There wasn't the will at the time. Haggard Celine 22 hrs ago #6
They could have at least come up with enough rope -misanthroptimist 22 hrs ago #8
As a kid, I used to marvel that they let Haggard Celine 21 hrs ago #10
Absolutely correct... displacedvermoter 12 hrs ago #30
"When did it all go wrong?" J_William_Ryan 22 hrs ago #7
I would add to all of the above reasons listed that Corporate Greed became so huge Marie Marie 22 hrs ago #9
Newt and the Moral Majority. BidenRocks 21 hrs ago #11
We never dealt with the question of slavery. BarbD 21 hrs ago #12
Reagan letting an Australian own a TV network. Grumpy Old Guy 21 hrs ago #13
Murdoch became a US citizen in 1985. He did not have controlling ownership in American telly before that. Celerity 14 hrs ago #20
KNR and bookmarking. niyad 21 hrs ago #14
I met with extremists on the left and right? Oh, really? Xipe Totec 20 hrs ago #15
Try googling "left-wing extremism" RandomNumbers 10 hrs ago #32
1996 Hieronymus Phact 20 hrs ago #16
Fox and the NRA. rubbersole 20 hrs ago #17
A radical element took over called Wayne LaPierre Hieronymus Phact 10 hrs ago #33
OK, now do the UK BaronChocula 20 hrs ago #18
The Closing of the Canadian Mind - By Stephen Marche, Aug. 14, 2015 Celerity 13 hrs ago #23
People chose entertainment and outrage bait over doing the right thing. Initech 20 hrs ago #19
The last 50 years of Republicans willfully GPV 14 hrs ago #21
Interesting. I have two main responses. yardwork 13 hrs ago #22
The failure to renew the Fairness Doctrine by the Reagan Administration in 1987 valleyrogue 13 hrs ago #25
Yes. And Citizens United made it easy for billionaires to buy elections. yardwork 13 hrs ago #28
When did it start to go haywire? valleyrogue 13 hrs ago #24
Yes. The power of corporations has grown to the point where they actually rule much of the government. Lonestarblue 12 hrs ago #31
Drum beat of talk radio BlueWaveNeverEnd 13 hrs ago #26
Much of it can be surmised as every billionaire is a policy failure... EarthFirst 13 hrs ago #27
America has intermittently "destroyed" itself. harumph 12 hrs ago #29

Blasphemer

(3,641 posts)
3. I've always that RFK's assassination was a big turning point.
Sat Jul 4, 2026, 11:01 PM
22 hrs ago

And yes, definitely the 2000 election. Nixon and GWB really paved the way for today's cabal.

Skittles

(173,760 posts)
4. yup
Sat Jul 4, 2026, 11:10 PM
22 hrs ago

when they let conservative hacks on the Supreme Court literally choose the president, that should have resonated way more with the American people than it did at the time

only NOW are people starting to get what the ultimate GOAL was

-misanthroptimist

(2,009 posts)
5. The end of the Civil War was mishandled badly
Sat Jul 4, 2026, 11:11 PM
22 hrs ago

Confederate leaders and those that bankrolled the Confederacy should have been either executed or spent the rest of their lives in prison.

Additionally, the States of the Confederacy should never have been let right back into the Union. They should have been Federal Territories until such time as the underlying culture that produced the Confederacy was expunged from America.

We didn't finish the job.

Haggard Celine

(18,057 posts)
6. There wasn't the will at the time.
Sat Jul 4, 2026, 11:23 PM
22 hrs ago

There were the radical Republicans, but they never had a majority. The South was soundly defeated, but to really do what needed to be done with land re-distribution and possible financial compensation for former slaves, it would have taken a lot more resources and people than the North had. You're right, the job wasn't finished, but I don't blame them too much for it.

-misanthroptimist

(2,009 posts)
8. They could have at least come up with enough rope
Sat Jul 4, 2026, 11:37 PM
22 hrs ago

...to make personal consequences clear. After all, rope is re-usable.

I'm very much anti DP these days, but when -as you point out- the resources aren't present to do the job properly and humanely, the job must be done still.

Haggard Celine

(18,057 posts)
10. As a kid, I used to marvel that they let
Sat Jul 4, 2026, 11:55 PM
21 hrs ago

Jeff Davis and the Confederate generals live. I remember some of them went to prison, but I think Davis was only in prison for a couple of years. Understand, I was a Southern kid, and had already been taught (ahem) a lot about the Civil War. But I thought it was crazy that with all the misery those men caused, they didn't forfeit their lives like a person who killed two people would. But that's the kind of question you wrestle with your whole life.

displacedvermoter

(5,263 posts)
30. Absolutely correct...
Sun Jul 5, 2026, 09:07 AM
12 hrs ago

And as Federal Territories they should have had their borders readjusted, Texas for example should be four states not one, Florida two etc, after that anti Confederate purge was complete and the hangings were over.

J_William_Ryan

(3,685 posts)
7. "When did it all go wrong?"
Sat Jul 4, 2026, 11:36 PM
22 hrs ago

When did it all go right – slavery, civil war, the genocide of native peoples, Jim Crow, black codes, segregation – America didn’t become a true democracy until 1965; the Warren Court began a hopeful process of America moving toward its promise of greatness.

But 50 years later the Voting Rights Act is gutted as the Roberts Court dismantles decades of hard fought for protections of Americans’ rights and protected liberties, the consequence of democracy having gone wrong and failed, the people solely responsible for the bad government they get.

Marie Marie

(11,656 posts)
9. I would add to all of the above reasons listed that Corporate Greed became so huge
Sat Jul 4, 2026, 11:39 PM
22 hrs ago

that it changed everything that this country once stood for. Now everything is driven by profits and bottom lines, not decency and fairness.

BarbD

(1,541 posts)
12. We never dealt with the question of slavery.
Sun Jul 5, 2026, 12:22 AM
21 hrs ago

A nation poisoned by racism is corrupt in the inside.

Grumpy Old Guy

(4,439 posts)
13. Reagan letting an Australian own a TV network.
Sun Jul 5, 2026, 12:25 AM
21 hrs ago

Rupert Murdoch, someone who had zero loyalty to the U.S., was allowed to own a major network and hire Roger Ailes to run it.

Celerity

(55,476 posts)
20. Murdoch became a US citizen in 1985. He did not have controlling ownership in American telly before that.
Sun Jul 5, 2026, 07:11 AM
14 hrs ago

Fox News was launched on October 7, 1996, several weeks before I was born.

Xipe Totec

(44,607 posts)
15. I met with extremists on the left and right? Oh, really?
Sun Jul 5, 2026, 01:04 AM
20 hrs ago

So you've met extreme pacifists on the left? Militant pacifists? Did they pummel you with large fluffy pillows?

Extremists on the left? What does that even mean?

RandomNumbers

(19,382 posts)
32. Try googling "left-wing extremism"
Sun Jul 5, 2026, 11:29 AM
10 hrs ago

Hint: if someone wants to use violence in pursuit of their objectives - that's an extremist.

Yes those people exist on both the right and the "left". That is, if you consider the "left" to include goals like completely abolishing capitalism and abolishing police as we know them (don't worry, they would have to replace the current police with some coercive means to keep people in line with the extremist's ideals, even if they refuse to admit this).

I am not calling any specific group extremist here. The key is willingness to use violence outside of self-defense and protection of the vulnerable from immediate life-threatening danger. (note that I am not a pacifist, because I make these exclusions. Otherwise I support non-violent action only in pursuit of political goals. Violent action has an overwhelming tendency to harm causes more than it helps ... besides the potential harm to innocents, which is deeply immoral.)

rubbersole

(11,359 posts)
17. Fox and the NRA.
Sun Jul 5, 2026, 01:28 AM
20 hrs ago

The NRA, flush with cash, started primary opponents to any lawmaker that voted against guns in any context. Dark money flourished from that success.

Hieronymus Phact

(789 posts)
33. A radical element took over called Wayne LaPierre
Sun Jul 5, 2026, 11:31 AM
10 hrs ago

Wayne LaPierre started his career at the NRA as a lobbyist in 1978. He later rose through the ranks to become the organization's chief executive officer and executive vice president in 1991

BaronChocula

(5,027 posts)
18. OK, now do the UK
Sun Jul 5, 2026, 01:29 AM
20 hrs ago

(See below since I had to moderate my high-and-mighty stance a bit)

Author's not wrong, but physician, heal thyself! Ten years ago when a majority proportion of American voters were presenting their racist and/or uninformed bona fides, a majority proportion of UK voters chose to screw with their economy with a kneejerk impulse to soothe their frustrations with Brexit. They're on their sixth PM since then. And that dude is on his way out.

But I get it. When you're the biggest, you're ironically under the proverbial microscope.

On edit, I see Stephen Marche is Canadian. So nothing against him. But he should still do the UK if he already hasn't .

Initech

(109,752 posts)
19. People chose entertainment and outrage bait over doing the right thing.
Sun Jul 5, 2026, 01:30 AM
20 hrs ago

Are you not entertained?

GPV

(73,417 posts)
21. The last 50 years of Republicans willfully
Sun Jul 5, 2026, 07:33 AM
14 hrs ago

undermining the nation in favor of personal greed, and creating a brainwashing system with RW media coupled with the breaking of the public education system, got us here. It was no accident, and they will reap what they have sown. They aren't going to be impervious to climate change. At some point their bunkers will have issues, and there will be no more peasants to repair them.

yardwork

(70,117 posts)
22. Interesting. I have two main responses.
Sun Jul 5, 2026, 07:41 AM
13 hrs ago

He completely omits the most direct cause of our current crisis, which is the influence of billionaires and heads of other countries. It began with Fox News and accelerated as Putin, Musk, Zuckerberg, Thiel and others have invaded the U.S. with propaganda and misinformation. And I believe that China probably has access to all our systems and can turn off the lights (literally) at any moment. Ignoring this silent invasion by people and entities that control great wealth and power is a big omission.

Were the seeds already there? Yes. Which leads me to his second major omission...

He really doesn't highlight the deep racism in many Americans. Talking about slavery in the past isn't enough. Until we acknowledge that half the country is deeply motivated by racism, we won't see how easy it is to manipulate those voters. The MAGA agenda is a racist agenda.

He also leaves out the significant amount of propaganda manipulating American voters on the left. MAGA is not our only problem.

valleyrogue

(2,829 posts)
25. The failure to renew the Fairness Doctrine by the Reagan Administration in 1987
Sun Jul 5, 2026, 07:58 AM
13 hrs ago

basically destroyed the media and turned it into a weapon of propaganda by the elites.

yardwork

(70,117 posts)
28. Yes. And Citizens United made it easy for billionaires to buy elections.
Sun Jul 5, 2026, 08:04 AM
13 hrs ago

It's no exaggeration to say that the GOP is now wholly owned by billionaires, many representing other nations, all of them representing selfish interests.

valleyrogue

(2,829 posts)
24. When did it start to go haywire?
Sun Jul 5, 2026, 07:55 AM
13 hrs ago

Last edited Sun Jul 5, 2026, 02:53 PM - Edit history (3)

In 1971 with the Powell Memo, the blueprint for the destruction of the U.S. in earnest. The rich just couldn't stand it that the inferior masses were gaining more and more influence and power. They couldn't stand it that people were speaking out and demanding a greater share of the pie.

Lonestarblue

(13,670 posts)
31. Yes. The power of corporations has grown to the point where they actually rule much of the government.
Sun Jul 5, 2026, 09:08 AM
12 hrs ago

EarthFirst

(4,274 posts)
27. Much of it can be surmised as every billionaire is a policy failure...
Sun Jul 5, 2026, 08:03 AM
13 hrs ago

It’s an extreme generalization; however the vast majority of the problems faced globally derive from the mass influence that disaster capitalism have over the solutions to these issues.

harumph

(3,582 posts)
29. America has intermittently "destroyed" itself.
Sun Jul 5, 2026, 08:53 AM
12 hrs ago

It (could) be argued that America's unlikely tendency to emerge from the flames is its biggest strength.
It ain't over till it's over.

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