I'm so tired of people associating low IQ with Trump

[csusan]

I just posted else in another post about persons with intellectual disabilities but have decided to do my own post.
Trump does NOT have low IQ or better known as intellectual disabilities.
Children and adults with intellectual disabilities are like most everyone one else kind, caring, and friendly.
Their IQ level will determine just how much help and assistance they will need in life it is not associated with negative personality traits.
As an example, many people with down syndrome have IQs in the moderate to mild range. Some need constant assistance with dressing and toileting skills with limited verbal abilities. Others are mild to borderline with no Trump behaviors. They can function from needing minimal assistance to almost average intelligence.
Severe to profound, IQs lower than about 50 need total care in all areas of development
People with intellectual disabilities are a minority just like any other minority and deserve our respect. The demeaning of intellectual disabilities I see on this site makes me angry. We are suppose to be better than this.
Trump is many things but his sickness and evilness is not related to IQ.
He chooses to be stupid and ignorant this isn't associated with low IQ. He chooses to be mean and hateful this is not associated with low IQ. He chooses to be vengeful this not related to low IQ
Please give people with IQ the same respect you give to every other minority.

[niyad]

1. KNR

[Ocelot II]

2. Trump isn't developmentally disabled. His stupidity is the result of laziness and narcissism.

His apparent intellectual shortcomings aren't caused by some congenital disability but by his constellation of personality disorders. He's willfully ignorant. He's a narcissist who thinks he's always right and that whatever he believes is true, and throughout his privileged life he's never been held to account. He always got his way because of his money and his bullying personality, so he was able to turn his beliefs into facts as far as his business was concerned. Since he always got his way and was able to force others to do what he wanted, he never had to learn much about anything that didn't affect his business. He remained comfortably ignorant about everything outside his world of real estate development, and being lazy on top of everything else, he never bothered to learn anything else. As a result, he presents as being as dumb as a bag of hair. His IQ, if it had ever been measured, is probably a lukewarm normal. He's functionally stupid because he's lazy and has been able to do what he wanted without having to know anything outside his little world of rich assholes.

[ananda]

6. I think he does have some cognitive impairment...

and lack of impulse control... due to old age
and bad lifestyle habits.

[csusan]

10. That is true. Cognitive impairment

Yes cognitive impairment in old age happens. I'm 73 and am seeing changes. I however have had at least average IQ and still do. Old age cognitive impairment is considered a different category. Intellectual disability can be diagnosed at very young age. If child is "slow" this may not show up until preschool.
Trump is a damaged human who refuses to use his innate intelligence to learn and seek experience and knowledge. Such a same that he uses his intelligence for evil. Thanks for posting

[ananda]

57. I have some impairment too.

But not like Trump. His is very bad
and he should be removed from office

[duhneece]

12. He never read any books, nothing on history except...

…the Nazi Bible.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

39. Enjoy your stay.

[haele]

35. When he was younger, he clever enough to be at least average

If you saw clips of his early interviews with more serious journalists, like the one with Barbara Walters where he was not scripted, he exhibited least a Jr. Collage vocabulary and enough savvy to attempt to pivot her focus, and when that didn't work, shut his trap instead of digging himself into a deeper hole.
As you indicated, his decline has been due to his privileged laziness, and probably way too much Adderall and partying to try to recapture his club hopping disco days - leading to public indications of development of some sort of dementia (instead of just lazy narcissism) since around the early 2010's.

[csusan]

55. Yes

Thank you. Totally right!

[Fiendish Thingy]

3. Thanks for posting this

Trump has enough specific, unique character defects, including willful ignorance, that there is no need to make up attacks on imagined low IQ scores or resorting to fat shaming.

[KPN]

21. Yeah, fair enough re: fat shaming. He's an out-of-shape, old, over-weight

heathen and asshole.

But I disagree with the stupid part — even a highly intelligent person can be, act, and behave stupidly — at least some time, much of the time, most of the time or — in the orange asshole’s case — ALL the time! Stupid and low IQ or cognitive impairment are not the same thing. Stupid can be something like just not using common sense, poor judgement, or making a bad decision. We have all been guilty of those on some occasions over the course of our life. The reason we are not labeled stupid or idiotic is we don’t do those things all the time, repeatedly — like the overweight, out of shape, idiotic asshole in the White (and gold lame) House .

[BannonsLiver]

32. Well he is a big fat fuck, so there's that.

But sure let’s continue to ignore the reality that he is low IQ and a big fatso because somebody somewhere out in the ether might think we’re talking about them and get offended.

Knives to gun fights, as usual.

[csusan]

90. I know your type

I had imagined that only MAGAs acted and talked like this my mistake. It seems even the democrats have people who are more interested in attacking and being like trump by refusing to listen or accept anything other than the way they want to see and believe it.
Thank you for I have grown today and added additional knowledge to my average intelligence. I now know not to expect that all democrats show kindness and caring to all their fellow humans. I'm a senior citizen. 73 years old. I have at least average intelligence and will continue to be someone who has exhibited at least average intelligence throughout my life even as Im continuing to show some signs of cognitive decline. Level of IQ or intelligence isn't something decided by people trying to score points. it's decided by psychologists who have trained and studied what it is and how to test it. I some how doubt this is you.

[mahatmakanejeeves]

4. Thanks. I had a reply for that other thread, but it would have been removed. NT

[sop]

5. Trump's no genius, but he's not that stupid. Ignorant, cruel, immoral, greedy, dishonest, suffering from multiple

personality disorders and advancing dementia, but he's not stupid.

[csusan]

7. It heartens me

to know others feelings on this. I see it everywhere not just at DU. But DU is the only place where I can make a statement.

I worked with infants, toddlers, children and adults with intellectual disabilities and it hurts me to see the things said. I can only imagine from the families I worked with how it must make families feel.

[BannonsLiver]

41. How does it make them feel?

Probably not as bad as the actual shit Trump has done to make their lives and the lives of everyone in this country more difficult. I’ll go out on that limb.

But sure, people who call him low IQ are an equally big problem. 🙄

[Irish_Dem]

8. Trump is a vicious, brutal psychopath.

This is the most salient piece of his mental status exam.

He is not very bright and uneducated as well.
But yes of course this is not what makes him evil.

[leftstreet]

9. DUers are NOT demeaning disabled people

The demeaning of intellectual disabilities I see on this site makes me angry.

For heaven's sake

Trump has no documented disability. He's demeaned here because he's a stupid malignant narcissistic asshole

[csusan]

15. You need to read some more posts

There are numerous times on DU and even one today claiming trump is low IQ and making jokes about how low his IQ is. Why are people claiming he has low IQ and joking about it? They are associating lack of intelligence to trump and his behavior. Somehow this is funny? I'd suggest you ask some parents with intellectually handicapped children if they find this comparision funny. To me it's clear that saying trump is low IQ, is just as bad as associating other minorities, we defend, with behaviors that MAGA thinks they have. I suggest that you seek out disabled children in school or adults in a sheltered workshop for disabled adults and then decide if they are anything like Trump.

[GoCubsGo]

16. Yes, stupid, malignant asshole who constantly uses "low IQ" as a slur.

Particularly when it comes to non-white women. I suspect that is really at the center of this, and not any sort of demeaning of the intellectually disabled.

[csusan]

56. Dont agree

That's just excuse. Kinda like the excuses we hear from maga. Doesn't make it ok.

[Escape]

18. Thanks Leftstreet..

You said it perfectly....
Trump calls all of his opponents "Low IQ". It's one of the many, many things I call him..

[CurtEastPoint]

11. And what does our Dear Leader (gagme) use as a dog whistle for African American? "Low IQ" Shame on him

and anyone who uses this term

[aeromanKC]

13. I work with MAGAt's and they are

Idiocracy!! We are living the movie in real time. Double Bonus: They are also Beavis and Butthead. We're living in a two for one movie loop.

[Wifes husband]

14. I am sorry

Every one is over-thinking this. The man is a stupid asshole. Greedy, selfish bastard with no morals.

[csusan]

17. I need more context

Exactly who and how are we overthinking this? I'm not sure if you mean I'm over thinking the posts I see at DU that talk about trump being low IQ. I really don't think so. We scream loudly when a MAGA makes a racist statement. I'm just saying that saying trump is low iq is just as derogatory to people with low iq as a maga making racist statements and we should all defend this minority.

[BidenRocks]

19. He is what we say!

Just because we call him a piece of shit, doesn't mean he is Mr. Hankey.
But that does not matter!
Calling him anything besides pResident is cathartic!
Ask him how he solved the Bowling Green Massacre! 2017
He will tell you all about it.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

20. K&R

[gulliver]

22. We also demean "the stupid"

Last edited Mon May 25, 2026, 02:48 PM - Edit history (1)

If you don't like fools, you don't like humanity (or, probably, yourself).

On edit: By "yourself" I don't mean the OP at all. I mean the reader and myself included. I mean "yourself" to be general.

[csusan]

58. Stupid is not the same

Stupid people can have very high iq they just make the choice not to use their intelligence. People with intellectual disabilities or low iq did not make that choice. Your argument is stupid. You are intelligent but are choosing not to understand my post because you want to continue demeaning a group of people that you don't know.

[gulliver]

64. You mistake me (but it's my fault)

There is no one more supporting of the mentally troubled than me, whether IQ-disabled, suffering from dementia, autistic, freaked out, lost, whatever.

I do understand your post. I'm not trying to argue against it. I'm trying to support and extend it. The differences between stupid, handicapped, and crazy are there, of course. But we're all human. All a little of each.

Peace.

On edit: I did update the original post. It does look like it could be taken as dunking on you, which it isn't. It was my mistake.

[stopdiggin]

23. you are of course correct. (and make a worthy point) you are also

Last edited Mon May 25, 2026, 01:45 PM - Edit history (1)

probably fighting an uphill battle against perhaps the oldest prejudice known to man. Mockery and disdain - both serious and humorous, good natured and down right vicious - are completely ingrained in our (and virtually every other culture) - and is inculcated from the time we are in diapers.

The basis of about 97% of our comedy ... (again, universal) (blonde jokes, cousin Jimmy, hapless spouse, rural rubes, Polish yoink .. ) And on a more serious level, the basis of almost instinctual and rudimentary categorization and evaluation of our fellow ...

You'd probably be hard put to find anything more universal - or more jointly shared.
So ... You are of course right - but .....

[twodogsbarking]

25. I recently saw Mel Brooks. He asked what is the difference between a Jew and a Frenchman?

A Frenchman leaves a party without telling anyone. A Jew tells everyone he is leaving and never leaves. Mel is of course Jewish. Your comment was great. Thanks.

[csusan]

44. Thank you

I'd hoped for better from DU. Oh well at least some people here understood my point.

[Attilatheblond]

71. Having once worked in a state institution for Developmentally Disabled, and in the non-amb children's unit of same

I get what you are saying and agree that people need to differentiate between 'low IQ' and just plain ignorant, willfully or due to lack of learning opportunity. Then, throw in levels of sociopathy or worse, and it has NOTHING to do with 'low IQ'

The children's non-amb unit I worked in had residents with serious physical problems, thus non-amb, along with profound mental disabilities. For some, it was a daily life and death fight to keep them going because their bodies didn't learn how to swallow, or even breathe reliably, some had sever cerebral palsy which is horrible to watch. And yes, there were some with behavior problems, but those ALL stemmed from the very real structural pain, an frustration of the inability to function at a 'normal' level or even speak. Some of the 'kids' were trying for all the caring staffers, for sure. But also, some of those youngsters (infants to early 20s) were also the sweetest people I ever met.

Mean and nasty is not the same as 'low IQ'.

Trump is mean and nasty. It is willful and he is responsible for his behavior. He IS willfully ignorant despite having opportunities for learning that most of us could only dream of. He chose to be ignorant of things not directly related to him self. That is NOT low IQ, it is a personal failing.

While it is true that he obviously is suffering age related mental deficiencies, he was not born with them. Again, that is not low IQ.

Csusan, I am in agreement with you. There are a few here, in this stronghold of online liberal thinking, who could do with some introspection regarding terms used. I am guilty of sometimes using terms that are not really fair, but I do know what 'low IQ' really means.

Trump is not low IQ. He's a self made asshole who has always refused to take responsibility for anything he has done wrong while trying to steal credit for what others have done. Kids in my old ward were most definitely low IQ, but they were not assholes.

[twodogsbarking]

24. Trump uses the IQ to insult others. That is why others use it against him.

People with doctorates have put gasoline in a kerosene heater and burned their house down. Doesn't matter how many books you read last year when your house is a pile of ashes. I have digressed but that is not unusual for me.

[csusan]

46. Does that make it ok?

I don't care what he says. We are better than him. We can learn not to denigrate a minority just to get back at him.

[nuxvomica]

26. Low IQ and stupid are different things

Stupidity as defined by Cipolla in The Basic Laws of Human Stupidity is the tendency to act not only against the interests of others but against your own interests as well. You can have high IQ, meaning you have high intellectual ability, and still be stupid, often through pride or hubris or a lack of empathy. This is a distinction we desperately need to understand in dealing with not just people like Trump but AI as well, which processes information more rapidly than humans yet should never be allowed to control anything.

[Escape]

27. So....

with the ridiculous war in Iran, the murder of our citizens on American streets, the daily fraud, theft and corruption of this administration and the very real possibility of the end of our Democracy.......you are most concerned about your fellow Democrats on this forum using a term Trump uses almost daily now.

I remember a DU poster last year admonishing us for commenting on Trump's obesity.

We are all in a WAR against a common enemy. We are all on the same team. We will all do our part to fight this evil in our own way, and we can't afford to be attacking each other in that process.

I just learned today that Trump really hates being called dumb. So, that's what I will call him from now on.

I sure hope the word "dumb" doesn't offend anyone.

[BannonsLiver]

36. Which is why I'm going to continue to call Trump whatever the hell I want to call him.

Including a fat fuck, pedo, liar, and LOW IQ.

[csusan]

47. Really that's your defense

Would it be ok because of everything you just stated for me to use a word that negatively is used against a minority to call thrump that.

[csusan]

60. Really

Would you be saying all this if I called someone the "n" word. I think not. Intellectual disabilities isn't dumb. People choose to be dumb, stupid, or uneducated. People with disabilities do not choose this. Just as people don't choose the color of their skin or their heritage. I think you make a poor argument.

[Escape]

77. I am sorry that you

associate discussions of Trump's IQ with anyone other than Trump himself. In my opinion, that is a disjointed perception and very hard for me to follow.

From your passion on the topic, I understand it must be very important to you. I won't discuss it any further.

[purr-rat beauty]

28. He has savvy, knowledge, and awareness

But is a malignant narcissist who speaks at a grade school level. The only thing keeping him afloat is his blackmail and surrounding himself with those who are in the Epstein Files.

He is declining and those who put him in place just need a couple more seconds to reach their goal of control when he loses it.

[doc03]

29. For every post I have seen where people say

Trump has a low IQ, I see ten with Trump calling people low IQ.

[csusan]

49. That doesn't make it ok

Just because he does it, we shouldn't do it. It brings us down to his level and we should be better than that.

[BannonsLiver]

52. Ah yes the old he goes low we go high bit.

It’s been a rousing success.

[BannonsLiver]

30. Another one for the "this is why we lose" file.

It’s now considered offensive to call Trump a moron. M’kay. 🙄

[csusan]

51. That isn't what i said

We use to call people MR but decided that we could call them something less negative so the term developmentally disabled or intellectually disabled. Moron is not a term to be used for people with disabilities. If you want to call trump that go ahead but please don't call someone with a disability that word.

[Intractable]

31. Trump accuses many people as having low-IQ, especially reporters and liberal politicians.

We know that every accusation Trump makes is either a projection or a confession.

Either way, it ain't looking good for his IQ.

[BlueTsunami2018]

34. I know I sound like a broken record but these people aren't stupid or crazy....

They’re evil.

Everything they’re doing is deliberate. Every move they make is to extract as much wealth as possible from the working class and place it in the hands of the psychopathic, wealth hoarding ruling class. It really is that simple. Tariffs, war, tax cuts, market manipulation, gutting entire government agencies, the weakening of the dollar, slashing benefits…..literally every move they make is to that end.

It’s all in Project 2025.

It’s pretty much the only thing they didn’t lie about.

We need class consciousness more than ever.

[FakeNoose]

37. I agree with you that the discussions of Chump should not refer to his IQ

How he tested on the standardized intelligence tests during his middle school or high school years is completely irrelevant. The whole thing should be dropped in DU. His low grades are a reflection of his lower than normal reading abilities, not his intelligence.

If he had been properly diagnosed as dyslexic (or whatever) when he was very young, he could have received special training to overcome the problem and he would have excelled at school, as many other children have done.

[BannonsLiver]

38. I think what's needed is an approved list of insults for Trump.

That will make people feel safer in this space.

[FakeNoose]

42. Oh I don't care, I've posted a lot of Chump insults in the last 9 years

I don't take any of this personally, but people are getting a little hyper about the IQ scores rumor. None of it has been proven anyway so I take it all with a grain of salt.

On another thread I mentioned that IQ tests and scores that students were given in the 1950's and 60s have little relevance to how that person would be scored now as an adult in their 70s or 80s.

[Dave says]

79. My understanding is that IQ remains ...

… pretty stable throughout one’s life. Of course, brain injuries (including shrinking frontal cortex) can result in declining IQ, but not necessarily.

I have an adopted daughter who tested at 72 IQ. Believe me, Trump’s IQ is/was higher than that. My guess is he is/was somewhere between 85 and 115.

His verbal fluency has declined much from the a**hole we knew back in the 80s/90s in NYC, so we are witnessing decline. Also a rise. Rising stupidity. But I have no idea if he’d test lower on a professionally administered IQ test.

But he’d ace a stupidity test.

[FakeNoose]

80. No actually they take the final test result and divide by one's age

So the older you are when you take the test, the lower your "IQ" score becomes.

As I stated in my earlier post on another thread, I took the test back in the early 60s, when I was about 10 or 11 years old. I scored 135. So if I take the same test now, I would have to get 7 times as many correct answers as I got then to keep the same "IQ" score.

It's also true for any of us senior citizens, including Chump. There's no way any of us could take that test and receive the same "IQ" when they divide the score by our age. (I'm 75 now.)

[csusan]

63. The ability to listen and admit error

Lots of sensitive people posting with anger and irritation based on me calling them out and asking for sensitivity. My guess is it's somewhat like trump who can't handle criticism or admit they are wrong and need to change their behavior. Kind of like a toddler, stomping their feet and saying I don't have to change and you can't make me. Oh well. I'm not sure a list would help. I don't know if your suggestion was honest or sarcasm.

[MineralMan]

40. Well, he's the one calling many people "low IQ individuals."

Most of those people, oddly enough, are people of color.

What's Trump's IQ? I have no idea, but I'd guess it to be in the 110-120 range. His obvious deterioration, however, along with his poor decision making, make him seem much more stupid that that.

I'm not sure why you're propping him up, though. He is not a good person, whatever is level of intelligence might be. He is a dangerous, totally self-absorbed person, who never should have been in a position of power.

[csusan]

67. I agree mostly

Trump has at least average intelligence maybe even above. His problem is related to his narcissism. He chooses to be dumb and ignorant. He is evil and vengeful this requires intelligence. He is showing signs of cognitive decline which is a totally different category than a life long intellectual disability diagnosed by psychologists.

[oasis]

43. Trump's no dumber than a mid-level MAGAt. He

refuses to accept the facts before him.

[yardwork]

45. Excellent points!

It's a complicated subject. I think that most of us call out Trump's intellectual laziness. He seems uninterested in learning anything unless it relates directly to him.

That is very different from being developmentally disabled.

[csusan]

68. Yes!

Totally. I think we can call trump many nasty names without using low IQ.

[yardwork]

74. IQ tests are silly things anyway.

[SSJVegeta]

48. High iq shouldnt necessarily be nearly as glorified as it is

Values should be.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

50. Even though it'll likely have little effect, your sensitivity

& compassion for others' suffering
is exactly what our poor old world
needs more of these days, so thank you.

[csusan]

54. Thank you

I'm shocked to say the least at how many people here are insensitive to others difficulty and difference. These are the same people who would have a stroke if I called someone the "n" word but they could care less for other minority. They think it's ok. Sounds kinda maga to me. I'm sure that will set people off. I'm just realizing that there are insensitive people on both sides of the aisle.
I worked with infants, toddlers, children and adults with all types of disabilities. I worked with families and the community. I will say I never received this kind of reaction from people in community that I have received today defending a minority that really can't speak for themselves.
This is truly eye opening. Thanks to everyone who understood my post and was kind in their responses. It means a lot. csusan or better known as Carolina

[A-Schwarzenegger]

62. Maybe try to apply the same sensitivity to those who disagree

on this topic? Theyre coming more from their despisal of trump
than an insensiviity to the people you want to stand up for.
Dragging the "maga" liine in there aint gonna help anything
and sure wont win you any converts. Among trump's many brutal
goals is the desire to make us all think & act like him, with no care for
anybody else. It's a trap easily fallen into.

P.S. and please note your OP got 68 recs so far...

[dedl67]

53. The IQ number is a very inadequate measure of something as complex as intelligence

Peter Medawar has a cogent critique in his book "Pluto's Republic" and discusses better ways of thinking about intelligence.

[csusan]

70. I don't disagree

There are people who are born with lower iq scores when tested by psychologists using tests that have been developed over many years. These tests are used to help provide services, determine needs, and assist families in learning how to help and advocate for their child.
I totally agree that there are different kinds of intelligence. IQ is a level of intelligence.

[dedl67]

72. Yes, there are some uses of the IQ score as a screening tool to help guide the providing of services.

[csusan]

78. Totally

The only way to get services for someone is to have a score. Its required by state and federal law. As you said diagnosis isn't the person, all it does is help show the level of help needed to maximize a person's abilities or level of care needed to support care givers.

[surfered]

59. Don't disagree and have learned not to go there;however, like Trump's genius claim or Bible thumpers and morality..

It’s the hypocrisy that should be pointed out. I don’t care about Trump’s IQ. It’s his stupid decisions, whims, and fondness for dark web conspiracies that should preclude him from leadership. IMHO

I will continue to point out that Trump is an idiot who thinks he’s a genius and that is scary given the powers he has.

[csusan]

73. YES

I totally agree with everything you said. Trump is a damaged man who is evil and vengeful. He chooses to be ignorant and stupid. He is showing signing of old age cognitve decline.
My guess if he was ever tested with an IQ test he would be at least average or maybe even above. I would assume he has never had his IQ tested as there was no reason. I worked a lot with psychologists doing IQ testing so am familiar with the tests and scoring. Trump would have at least scored average

[IbogaProject]

65. Yes he is an idiot

He values self over all. He may have suffered from a learning disability but it may just be his weak character to refuse to listen, learn or conform. I agree that lumping the developmentally disabled in with someone with bad character like T isn't right. Fyi, my Dad had a cousin who was XXY and was a college educated engineer, he had some reproductive malformations but his mind was at least average.

[GoodRaisin]

69. Sometimes people confuse ignorance with a low IQ.

Krasnov is not a very learned person. Ignorant. And, stupid enough to talk about things he doesn’t know.

Whether that translates to a low IQ nobody knows. But we do know he is intelligent enough to be a con man.

[csusan]

75. Actually people do know

On an IQ test trump would have tested at least with normal IQ or above. He isn't a genius as he claims. A person with low IQ would not have the intellect to develop skills necessary for the presidency even if they tried. Trump doesn't have the skills not from lack of ability but from lack of desire to learn and develop the knowledge. He is lazy and evil. To change he would need to admit that he isn't perfect and narcissists can't do that. I am very familiar with IQ testing and what low IQ looks like having worked in the field of developmental disabilities. Psychologist who use IQ tests to determine the level of intelligence. I worked with people with low IQ or developmental disabilities and had to understand the developmental skills of people at every level of disability.
Trump is starting to show signs of age related cognitive decline but again that isn't low IQ. Iow IQ is diagnosed in childhood. This is a personality issue. He is a malignant narcissist who is incapable of changing or learning from his mistakes.

[marble falls]

76. Pay attention: the ones who are of questionable intellegence are his supporters.

[csusan]

82. I agree

Our country doesn't adequately support poor and rural areas. It starts with babies. They are born like every other baby but don't receive the Healthcare and stimulation required to keep their brain growing through developmental stages. They end up low IQ. They enter an underfunded educational system that can't meet their needs. They just aren't as smart as their peers. The cycle continues. If our country would provide all the resources needed to develop a baby's potential and provide excellent educational services this cycle could be broken.
I've read studies showing that people of low IQ tend to be more MAGA. Rural people still vote for trump in higher numbers than other groups. Growing up in a destitute area almost garuantees low IQ and lack of educational skills necessary for developing higher level thinking skills. I guess that's why trump loves him the uneducated.
It is sad for people who aren't given a fair shake in life. I've seen them in YouTube videos and it is pitiful. They lack any ability to understand what he us doing to them.

[ShazzieB]

81. I have several thoughts on this.

To begin with, I don't think people calling Trump "low IQ," "stupid," etc, has anything to do with how any of us feel about people with developmental disabilities. Imo, it's a mistake to interpret insults leveled at Trump in that way. (Stick a pin in that, as I'll be coming back to it later.)

I agree with what twodogsbarking said upthread, that Trump constantly uses the phrase "low IQ" to insult others, and that has led to people using it against him. In other words, he started it. That doesn't make it okay, of course, but "so and so has a low i.q." is an insult I don't ever remember hearing out of anyone's mouth before Trump started hurling it at everyone who does anything he doesn't like.

I think he normalized that expression to the point that it was inevitable that people would start using it against him. We all got acclimated to it (along with all the other insults he constantly spews) whether we wanted to or not. As much as we all hate his rudeness and the constant stream of invective he spews, I think he has created a culture of insults that we have gradually gotten desensitized to, willingly or not, and "low IQ" is just one piece of a larger and very ugly picture.

Remember the way he insulted all the other candidates in the early Republican debates? I watched those debates with my mouth literally hanging open. I had never heard a grown adult dish out schoolyard level insults at other adults in such a fashion, and I couldn't believe what I was hearing. You could tell that his opponents were equally taken aback. They didn't know how to respond, and as a result, he was able to get away with it. Again and again.

Those of us with a sense of decorum and an awareness of how people are supposed to behave in such situations were baffled and horrified, but a sizeable segment of the country got a kick out of his childish behavior, lapped it up like kittens drinking milk, and begged for more. Those were the people that gave him the Republican nomination and elected him potus twice.

While he went on his merry way insulting people right and left, he also, constantly bragged about his "very large brain" and claimed to know more about anything and everything than anyone else. There are video montages on YouTube of him saying things like, "I know more about X than anybody!" and "Nobody knows more about Y than me!" over and over and over again. He seems to think that if he says, "I'm really smart!" eough times, that will magically make it so.

In addition to all of the above, I truly believe that he is not an especially bright guy. Smart people have traits like intellectual curiosity, rational thinking skills, and the ability to understand complex issues, NONE of which Trump has ever displayed. I have called him stupid on many occasions, because I believe he IS stupid, in a way that has nothing to do with IQ points. He has ZERO emotionally intelligence, and his understanding of any issue he has ever opined on is demonstrably and distressingly shallow, especially for someone in the position of power snd responsibility he has managed to worm his way into.

Tk bring thiscpback around to where I started, i want to say that I would be absolutely appalled if I saw anyone insulting developmentally disabled people at DU or elsewhere, but as I said at the outset, I don't believe deriding Trump's intelligence has anything to do with them or our attitude towardd them. I'm very much aware of the issues those people race and would never want to add to them. But I think we all need to be free to say the things we need to say about the manchild who currently holds all of our futures and possibly the future of our whole species in his hands, while we watch powerlessly and helplessly and those who actually have the power to do anything about him pretend there's nothing wrong. I really, really believe we need that.

[ProfessorGAC]

83. Quite Disagree

He is not at all bright, likely statistically significantly below average with a pyschpoathy that includes the grandiose notion that he is especially smart.
Describing him as lesser than average intellectually has zero impact on other cognitively challenged people.
So no, I'll not be taking the advice in your priggish OP.

[csusan]

86. I disagree

What experience do you have in testing IQ? Are you a psychologist trained in IQ testing? I don't think so. How much experience have you had with someone whobis truly low IQ? My guess none. You can say whatever you want but doesn't make it true. Any psychologist that had tested trump anytime in his life would say he has at least average IQ. He has old age cognitive decline this is not related to level of intelligence that someone has had throughout their life time.

[csusan]

88. Well actually he isn't below average and never has been

I doubt you have the knowledge regarding IQ and how it's tested and what defines average IQ. Just because he chooses to not use his innate abilities that go along with normal average IQ doesn't mean he is low IQ. He is ignorant and stupid these are choices and not related to normal or average intelligence. People with low intelligence struggle to learn. Many times things that we lesrn easily they can't grasp at all. Trump could use his average intelligence to increase his knowledge but he is lazy. He doesn't want to. He also is now showing signs of old age cognitive impairment. This is not related to IQ. People with lower than average IQ or really low IQ are diagnosed in childhood so they can receive special services related to their intellectual level- borderline, moderate, severe, or profound intellectual development. You can choose to believe what you want but doesnt make it true or fact. But it does enable you to not care about a group minorities and how they might feel. Sounds MAGA to me.

[RoeVWade]

84. So calling him crazy or insane insults people with mental illness? Mental illness is not necessarily the person's fault

either.

Not sure I can follow the OPs point to its proper endpoint.

Moron and idiot were words to degrade the mentally disabled as well, so they can't be used.

[csusan]

87. I don't call someone mentally ill

as a way to demean them. I have called Trump a narcissist because mental therapist have called him that. Being a narcissist is very different than being low IQ. Many people and most people with low IQ that I worked with were kind, caring, socially appropriate for their developmental age. They could be funny and were not mean. A narcissist has a number of unpleasant personality traits. With all the ugly words we can call trump why is it necessary to call him low IQ especially if it hurts someone's feelings who is low IQ? It's just not necessary but hey if it makes you feel better to use that term then go ahead. I know what kind of people go out of their way to hurt others for no reason other than they enjoy it.

[Permanut]

85. Well said - K & R.

[mr715]

89. This is silly.

Trump calls Rep. Crockett "low IQ".

When I was a teacher I ran into the modern IQ equivalents that are used and some kids had very low scores despite their personality -- ie the test's bias scored the kid lower than he should have been. It is a signifier with little meaning.

Is Trump "low IQ"? With reference to Clinton or Obama, yeah. Either, or their spouses.

[csusan]

91. IQ equivalents are not standardized IQ tests

For any testing of IQ it must be preformed by a licensed psychologist trained to use standard IQ tests. Not sure how you used tjis tool but unless you are a qualified psychologist in intelligence IQ testing any results you seem to think you have are not valid nor are they indicative of a child's IQ level. If they are in your class and not receiving any type of services for intellectual disability then the children in your class are average intelligence with msybe few at low or borderline. Have any children in your class been tested by a psychologist to determine IQ level. If not the tool you have was probably to give you and overview of intelligence and IQ. Not to diagnose the children in your class. I worked in developmental disabilities for 30 years. I could walk into a classroom and pick which children I thought needed to be tested to see if their IQ was borderline or what is also called low. I couldn't say anything other than they seemed to be having learning problems. I would then refer them to the professional who was trained to test their IQ which would either confirm my opinion or indicate that low IQ wasn't the reason for their poor school performance. And no this isn't silly. Im sorry for you that the tool you used gave you the impression that you understood IQ better than you do.

[mr715]

92. Some students received testing from child psychologists

And yes, the results demonstrated significantly how I do not understand IQ.

However I suspect the profound disability suggested by one particular student was an artifact of the testing, although this was done by an actual psychologist.

There was a massive disconnect between the kid's numbers and his demeanor in middle school. But his story ended sadly.

[csusan]

93. Thank you for your reply

I get what you are saying. I will say that a child who has tested at profound intelligence or IQ needs constant attention and support. They typically can't walk or talk. Maybe unable to roll over and needs for someone move them. Unable eat on their own probably can swallow as swallowing is a brain stem function and doesn't require brain function. No speech and sometimes are deaf and blind. They have typically no skills. If a child scored profound it couldn't be a standardized score. I'm not familiar with what you are using but looked it up and it appears it helps address learning disabilities. Persons with intellectual disabilities can have a learning disability but smart kids can have a learning disability. IQ isn't necessarily an issue. You may already know this so I apologize if im telling you things you know. On line it also said it helped in determining placement in gifted classes. A really smart kid doesn't need an IQ test unless its required to document eligibility for gifted placement. Their IQ score would be over the average of 100 Also it said cognitive skills. IQ tests will look at whether the child hasn't achieved cognitive skills (age appropriate reading, math skills age appropriate concept development and so further) because of low IQ if this isn't the case then something else is going on and additional testing is needed. If you already knew this then never mind. If not I hope it was helpful. I apologize as I my first response was curt and condescending. My excuse is that I have responded to a lot of what I consider ugly angry responses. I'm afraid I took your response the wrong way. Thank you again for sharing more. It means a lot.

[mr715]

95. I appreciate your position

I'm not a clinician but I am a neurobiologist doctoral candidate and public middle school teacher. And I've taken stats, in which IQ is an invariable word problem.

I think I subscribe to a more postmodern interpretation of IQ. It measures how well one does on a particular test and then there are models that extrapolate or correct away from that.

Definitionally 50% of the population are "low[er] IQ" but for the purposes of politics/power that is more complicated.

When I taught middle school, I only saw IQ in the context of disability, and even then rarely. Although I did work in an immigrant community that was significantly bilingual.

Upshot -- Trump's IQ is orthogonal to his other horrible qualities. His relative IQ compared to other 'archetypical' heads of state may be strategically beneficial to Democrats. He just isn't great at implementing plans because he can't project his consciousness beyond himself.

You are entitled to your thoughts, of course, and I am just talking with you. I appreciate being able to think through a problem.


Edit: By IQ test equivalents I mean the fancy special names for the tests that give you what is an IQ, but they don't call it that. Kids I worked with sometimes got 3 different scores with confidence intervals. The one kid that I was referring to scored, like, 50. And he presented as a completely normal, perhaps somewhat slow kid. He had plans, was in regular classes, had complex friends, had dramatic interpersonal relationships, had girls have crushes on him, etc...

[luv2fly]

94. I appreciate your passion and generally agree

But saying something like "Their IQ level will determine just how much help and assistance they will need in life..." just isn't accurate. What determines their need for assistance in the future has more to do with access to quality skill training, a good education, and a system designed to better their lives.

Individuals with access to such quality systems typically gain better skills, regardless of IQ. Those who don't have access, or who have parents/guardians who insist on their participation in sketchy "therapies" often are the deal-breakers. This is particularly true when talking about young children, who have a very small window in which to rapidly gain skills, and involving them in worthless feel-good programs is a travesty.