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ashredux

(2,932 posts)
Sat Apr 4, 2026, 12:42 PM Yesterday

"...The creatures outside looked from pig to man,...........

“…The creatures outside looked from pig to man, and from man to pig, and
from pig to man again; but already it was impossible to say which was
which.”

6 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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"...The creatures outside looked from pig to man,........... (Original Post) ashredux Yesterday OP
Animal Farm Charlie Chapulin Yesterday #1
Me too Arthur_Frain Yesterday #3
Two legs good, Four legs better! jfz9580m Yesterday #2
Quiet, piggy Martin Eden Yesterday #4
Shoutouts to Freepers? jfz9580m 22 hrs ago #5
Pigs are better. Faux pas 18 hrs ago #6

Charlie Chapulin

(388 posts)
1. Animal Farm
Sat Apr 4, 2026, 01:45 PM
Yesterday

Throughout much of my life, I always heard people referencing 1984 and Big Brother.
I always thought things were more like Animal Farm, which I read as a teen in the 70s.
Orwell hit a lot of salient points in both books. But I always felt Animal Farm rang truer.

Arthur_Frain

(2,373 posts)
3. Me too
Sat Apr 4, 2026, 02:18 PM
Yesterday

But Huxley has to be given a nod with his drugged population of Brave New World. We’re living in a mash up of the two, whether you consider Soma to be our big pharma monopoly or perhaps social media addiction.

jfz9580m

(17,239 posts)
2. Two legs good, Four legs better!
Sat Apr 4, 2026, 02:05 PM
Yesterday

And yes I flipped it on purpose. Sick of crowds of morons.

I rather like Lucien Greaves. I see this on my street daily and so it is personal:

https://luciengreaves.substack.com/p/emergent-stupidity

Emergent Stupidity

The phenomenon was first recorded by Francis Galton in 1906, and has subsequently been endlessly verified, often with much enthusiastic bloviating about the notion of the “wisdom of crowds”: take an unknown quantity (in Galton’s case it was the weight of an ox at a county fair), and ask people to estimate the correct answer. If you take an average of those estimates, you are far more likely to arrive at the correct answer than if you choose to stand by any individual guess. The average of a large number of estimates is likely to arrive at, or close to, the correct quantity. Estimates cluster around the true value in either direction, with highs and lows canceling one another out, leading to an average often remarkably close, or exactly at, the true quantity.

But it is important to realize the specific conditions under which collective intelligence proves accurate. The independence of those providing their judgements, or estimates, is essential. Estimates must be free from influence and coercion, and derived from a diversity of opinions. If you put people into a group where they discuss their estimates, some eloquent and/or aggressive ignoramus may well rationalize or harass their team into a radically off-quantity far removed from the average they would have arrived at if acting individually, and far removed from the actual quantity. This experiment in the wisdom of crowds also offers insight into collective stupidity.

In order to realize the power of collective wisdom, we need to support and maintain individual independence and viewpoint diversity. The wider the range of information and perspectives, the better. Groups are often hostile to this principle. While the path to collective wisdom is narrow, collective stupidity seems to be more common and natural. Sadly, collective stupidity also seems to be an emergent characteristic. That is to say that collective stupidity (irrational and counterproductive ideas and behaviors) seem capable of exceeding the individual stupidity of any single member of the group. Stupidity, as a group dynamic, can exceed the stupidity of the lowest common denominator.


The reference to Frances Galton is certainly not sinister code for eugenics based on what I have seen of Greaves. He generally seems more like an advocate for critical thinking than anything else. I dislike Substack, but unfortunately that is where everyone posts nowadays.

How does it tie back to your post? I suppose, it doesn’t (the reference to “Animal Farm” in the subject line aside), but yours is rather a Rohrschak Test. I do not know what the politics of the creeps flooding my street are, but whatever they are, they are detestable humans I am sure. And stupidity is the outstanding quality I detect.

This piece by the always cool Andy Nikiforuk helped me a lot in these tribal times. I am on DU mainly because I trust Dave/elad/MIRT, DU and agree with the TOS broadly. But outside DU, stupidity often seems to be a unifying characteristic in people of diverse voting preferences:

https://thetyee.ca/Culture/2025/07/25/Triumph-of-Stupidity/

Cipolla firmly believed “that stupidity is an indiscriminate privilege of all human groups and is uniformly distributed according to a constant proportion.” And I suspect he is right about that.

In other words, “one finds the same percentage of stupid people whether one is considering very large groups or dealing with very small ones.” Their colour, size, wealth, IQ, class and fashion sense really don’t matter. Ratchet your way to the top of Silicon Valley’s techno-elite and you will be faced with the same percentage of stupid people in your life. As a consequence one clever scribe has even written a book titled Why Smart People Can Be So Stupid — credit no doubt due to Cipolla’s earlier treatise.

But here I think that even the great Cipolla has erred by blaming nature for so many mindless people. To be sure, nature can reliably scare up a lot of stupid people, but so can the engineering of technocrats. A lot of studies have documented that the technological world is making everyday life more monotonous, fragile and predictable. The thing about monocultures is they tend to be nurseries for making a lot of stupid people.


In fairness, I would have to admit that I am not the brightest tool in the shed when in settings common in routine medicine and science. But im the last 14.5 years I have found settings in which I am constantly exposed to breathtaking new levels of vacuous cluelessness that make me feel sharper. I don’t really like that. And invoking Idiocracy never feels cliche as you live through it. It is the only piece of fiction I have ever felt represents reality. I really identify with Luke Wilson’s character daily.

jfz9580m

(17,239 posts)
5. Shoutouts to Freepers?
Sat Apr 4, 2026, 09:17 PM
22 hrs ago

Is it a reference to police v thieves? Bots v humans? It is DU so it is not dem v republicans unless you are a friend of yeller’s. He/she/it was less “subtle”.

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