If Cops Demand Your Window Down, DO THIS...

[Joinfortmill]

My words: Given the environment we now live in, you never know what's going to happen out there. The most important step is: When asked to exit your car, do so and LOCK the door behind you.

Marc breaks down:
– When rolling your window down actually helps you
– Why refusing to exit your car is a huge mistake
– The exit-and-lock strategy that keeps cops out of your vehicle
– Exactly what to say (and NOT say) on the roadside
– How to deny consent the right way

This isn’t about arguing with police.
It’s about protecting your rights and giving your lawyer something to work with later.

[viva la]

1. What worries me is that these roid-raging thugs will interpret someone getting out as a threat--

and shoot you or arrest you. Remember the young black woman Sandra Bland who was charged with "resisting arrest and assault" and later found hanged in her cell? The "officer" saw her every gesture and movement as "resistance".

[EX500rider]

6. You only get out if they tell you to nt

[Ninga]

2. Seldom do I watch YouTube's because they take too long to get to the point..but this was outstanding, easy to watch and

his explanations clear. Many thanks!

[NowsTheTime]

3. Here is a little bit different take on this...

[usonian]

13. Transcript. If you can't copy and paste or print out a video.

https://rentry.co/mhe55iad

[Roc2020]

4. really good information

[cab67]

5. not necessarily good information

In fact, it could be dangerous and backfire badly.

Depending on why you were pulled over, the police are allowed to break your window out.

[EX500rider]

7. Basically stay in the car with window down & hands in sight unless told to exit

They have the right to tell you to exit, see Pennsylvania v. Mimms and refusal to get out can get your window broke & you dragged out.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pennsylvania_v._Mimms

[OMGWTF]

14. When ordered to get out of your car, lock the door behind you. It becomes another 4th Amendment blockade and the cops

can't get into it without a warrant or probable cause.

[EX500rider]

19. If they don't have permission or probable cause

Nothing they find will stand up in court so I don't see the point in locking the doors

[Cerulean Southpaw]

36. If they can make up any reason to arrest you

Then they can have the vehicle towed and impounded.

Then they don't need a warrant or consent. They call it an "inventory" of the vehicle's contents instead of a "search". The "inventory" is done to protect your property, of course.

[littlemissmartypants]

8. It looks like an advertisement. I say situational awareness is the first rule of self defense.

Every situation is different and deserves a separate assessment.

[Cirsium]

9. In what neighborhood?

In what neighborhood would any of this advice work? And for whom would it work?

"How to survive a police state when you are of the right ethnicity and in the right neighborhood."

[leftstreet]

20. +1

[AverageOldGuy]

10. Would be nice to have a written list of do's and don't's . . .

. . . so we don't have to slog through a rambling YouTube video with a shouting, hand-waving narrator. Gave up after 15 seconds of it.

[Jedi Guy]

21. Here you go.

Stay in your car unless asked to exit. Roll your window down if asked to do so. Don't move around a lot as the officer approaches since they don't know what you're doing. When asked for your driver's license, tell the officer where it is and then retrieve it without moving suddenly. When asked for your registration and proof of insurance, tell the officer where it is and then retrieve it without moving suddenly. If it's in the glove compartment, open the compartment and then take your hand away so the officer can see the contents, then get your paperwork out.

If you get a ticket don't argue the point or try to litigate the issue on the side of the road; that's what court is for. Even if you think a citation is utter bullshit, arguing it on the side of the road gains you nothing. Stay as calm as you can.

Cops are generally very alert and wary when conducting a traffic stop since they have no idea whether you're going to be calm and polite or whether you're going to do something drastic. Traffic stops can go wrong in any number of ways and they're acutely aware of that.

If you're arrested , keep in mind that they don't have to read you your Miranda rights by default. They only have to do so if they intend to ask you questions. If they do read your rights, don't provide any information beyond your name, address, and date of birth. Do not, under any circumstances, answer questions without an attorney present.

[mucholderthandirt]

24. I used to get a lot of reels about how people act when a cop pulls them over, or otherwise approaches them.

A cop has the right to ask you to roll the window down, and to be shown your license and registration. Do not provoke them, obey all lawful orders. Get out if told to, do not if told to remain in the vehicle.

Don't ask them what you did wrong, don't claim you didn't do anything wrong, don't claim sovereign citizenship rights, or curse them or attack them. Stay calm, obey all lawful orders. Don't demand to keep your phone, or try to call anyone, or generally act like an asshole.

Apparently you can ask to have a supervisor come to the scene, but it's not going to change anything if you've been detained, or worse still, arrested. You're still going down to the jail to be processed. You'll have your chance to defend yourself in court.

I'm not convinced that ICE has the right to accost you unless you have broken any law, without a valid court warrant. They are not here to harass citizens who are exercising their Constitutional rights, including the right to be on any street and to decide to turn around and leave. But I'd guess we need a lawyer to give actual advice on that.

[Jedi Guy]

34. To the best of my knowledge, ICE aren't cops in the way we normally think of them.

So as far as I know you're correct in that they can't stop you or hassle you unless they have some kind of immigration order involving you or probable cause to suspect that you've broken immigration law in some way. They only enforce immigration law, not speed limits and such.

That said, if I were out driving and an ICE vehicle got behind me and lit up its lights, I'm going to pull over... in a well lit, populated area. Refusing to stop or trying to get away isn't going to end well.

But as we've seen, telling them we're not mad at them or just being in their general vicinity also might not end well. Given recent events I'd be nervous around ICE agents in a way I wouldn't be around a state or local cop.

[question everything]

31. If you rolled your window, can they just reach in and unlock the car?

[Jedi Guy]

33. They could, yes.

But they're going to ask you to lower the window so they can talk to you. You don't necessarily have to lower it all the way, though. You could lower it halfway so it's enough to talk and pass your license and such through the gap but not so low that they could easily reach in.

As a practical matter they'd only likely get you out of the car to search you for weapons, which on your bog standard traffic stop should be fairly unlikely, especially if you keep your cool. Getting someone out of a car on the side of the road is risky for both the officer and the driver so in a normal stop it's not very likely.

On that note, if they should happen to ask you to exit the vehicle that's considered a lawful order under Pennsylvania v. Mimms. Refusing to do so is just going to escalate things, potentially to the point of them forcibly removing you from the car.

As someone else noted, you can put your hazard lights on when they initiate the stop and then pull over in a place that's well lit and has other people around, like a gas station.

[NowsTheTime]

11. Good luck rolling the window up & locking the door ...instead simply state that "I do not concent to any searches"

[Zackzzzz]

18. Yes, You start rolling up your windows before getting out.....

What could go wrong?

Or do you leave the windows down,
turn off the motor, then lock the car while getting out
taking the keys with you?

[usonian]

12. Transcript, in case you can'r memorize videos.

https://rentry.co/k2cr92vf

[Raven123]

15. So we should assume they won't prevent us from closing the door?

[Mossfern]

16. Can't they just unlock the door

through the open window?

[Staph]

17. The exception to everything he said....

is if you are a woman, driving alone.

I was told by a sheriff's daughter some advice from her old man. If you are a woman driving alone, especially at night, and you see flashing lights directly behind you, turn on your flashers and drive to the nearest populated area - a gas station, a store parking lot, whatever. If you know where there is a nearby police station, go there.

Turning on your flashers says "I see you". Going to a populated space may keep you from getting raped or worse.

That advice is 30 years old, but I still think about it when I see a police car coming up behind me. Thankfully, I've never had to use it.

[EX500rider]

23. Also bad advice in my opinion

There's plenty of videos on YouTube with people who didn't pull over in the first couple blocks having their car rammed off the road and arrested for fleeing and eluding.

[MichMan]

26. I live in a rural area where the closest populated area might be 10 miles away.

Seems like the police would be pretty angry if I didn't pull over for ten miles

[chia]

27. I haven't forgotten the murder of Cara Knott by on-duty CHP Craig Peyer in 1986

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Cara_Knott

On the night of December 27, 1986, twenty-year-old Cara Knott was driving south on Interstate 15 from her boyfriend's home in Escondido, California, to her parents' home in El Cajon when Craig Peyer, who was on duty in a marked California Highway Patrol (CHP) vehicle, directed Knott to pull off the freeway on an isolated, unfinished offramp.[7] It was later discovered that Peyer also had been harassing several other female drivers in the same area by pulling them over on the same offramp, supposedly trying to pick them up as dates. In the Knott case, it was believed that the situation escalated to physicality when Knott threatened to report Peyer for his inappropriate actions. When he attempted to grab her, she slashed and scratched at his face. Peyer then bludgeoned her with his flashlight and strangled her to death with a rope.[8] He then threw her body over the edge of the Los Peñasquitos Creek Arch Bridge, where she fell into the brush below.

[EX500rider]

22. I don't find it very good advice in my opinion

Nothing says I have something to hide in the car like getting out and quickly locking the door, giving him an excuse to call for a dog to come sniff around your car and then get into your car due to the dogs alert if you had something to hide, and if they search your car without probable cause or your permission it won't stand up in court anyway but the dog alert will give probable cause

[Polybius]

25. I liked Chris Rock's video better

[Raine]

32. That's a good one! 👍nt

[Bluetus]

28. It is probably good legal advice for a routine traffic stop, but it will not work with ICE

I hope you are not suggesting this will somehow cause ICE to behave differently.

My advice (I'm not a lawyer) is to immediately call 911 just as soon as you feel threatened. You want your voice recorded on the 911 systems. Clearly tell the 911 operator that you are being assaulted by an unidentified person wearing a mask and threatening you with a gun, and please send an officer immediately. And follow the instructions that the 911 operator gives you. Chances are good that if ICE knows they might themselves be arrested, they will move on before the police arrive.

Understand that in every state AFAIK, assault does not require any physical contact. Assault can include threatening behavior. If you live in a state that Trump is attacking, you may get police to respond. If you live in Texas or someplace like that, I doubt that the police will help, but at least you will have your part of the story on record, which could be helpful if it goes to trial.

[MichMan]

29. "Understand that in every state AFAIK, assault does not require any physical contact."

"Assault can include threatening behavior."

That would also mean that the Federal government has grounds to arrest protesters that exhibit behaviors that ICE agents find threatening. Even when there hasn't been any physical contact.

[Bluetus]

30. That is the law. But the difference is the police don't get to decide that.

That is why we have courts. Right now, ICE is acting as judge, jury, and quite literally, executioner.

Put the two ICE agents who executed Pretti (still unnamed but on administrative leave) on trial. Let the jury decide if Pretti, who was subdued on the ground with his gun removed was a threat to the agents. I guarantee you that the jury will find that it was the agents who were threatening. But go ahead and defend ICE with your hypotheticals. I will continue to call for a trial to decide this.

While you are at it, tell us why you don't think ICE should identify the executioners.

[RandiFan1290]

35. Won't happen in reality.

They will not allow you to shut your door when you get out.
They will grab both your arms and place themselves in between so you can't shut the door.

I've seen plenty of videos where people try and then they are charged with hitting the cop with the door.