Question not being asked: Why was his gun drawn?

[Betty Boom]

I’ve watched the video dozens of times now. And I’m still trying to figure out why no one else is asking the question: Why was his gun even drawn in that situation? He was able to fire so quickly because his gun was already drawn before she even moved forward. Why? It seems like a total overreaction to what was happening at that moment prior to him firing. That alone cannot have been proper police procedure.

[UpInArms]

1. Another question

Why, if they were blocking the middle of the street, did they not prevent cars from entering the roadway that would be unable to get through or turn around?

[Blues Heron]

2. He knew he was going to kill her for not getting out of the car

He will go to prison for this

[Dave Bowman]

5. I sure hope so.

[Bettie]

6. Let's be fair here

He would have killed her for getting out of the car too. As soon as he focused on her, he planned to kill her.

[orangecrush]

10. This

It was premeditated.

[sboatcar]

27. With the FBI the way it is, I doubt it

But now that everyone knows his name and can track him down, justice is going to happen one way or another. The federal government not holding him accountable just means a private citizen is, and its not going to be pretty.

[flashman13]

44. We do not need another Charlie Kirk. To assassinate this person, though he is clearly a murderer,

would just create another right wing martyr. Trump would build a mausoleum for this guy in the middle of DC. We do not need a Horst Wessel.

[ShazzieB]

46. Minnesota will prosecute him if the feds don't.

And once he's convicted under state law, Schlump won't be able to do a thing. That's the scenario I'm rooting for.

[sboatcar]

47. Same, but then its a matter of if the state can gather enough evidence for a grand jury.

[questionseverything]

51. The recording is plenty of evidence to go to the grand jury

[Bettie]

3. Because they were explicitly

Looking to hire people with a predisposition to violence. They got what they were looking for and the people in charge love the outcome.

[Katcat]

20. I'm beginning to think

It’s a requirement to be bat shit crazy to join the gop.

[gab13by13]

4. Depends who you ask.

If you ask Noem or Vance or Patel, they will say because it was pre-determined she was a domestic terrorist where all laws don't apply.

[John1956PA]

7. His head was not with the situation because he was video recording or streaming.

He should have been taking in the totality of the situation instead of walking forward along the right side of the car while looking at his phone screen. I do not think he had coherent thoughts. I think his act of firing his sidearm was done impulsively. However, I can understand the opinion of other DUers who think his actions were premeditated.

[snot]

12. I agree with this take.

I think he had a predisposition that got him into trouble, based on his past experiences – I've read that in a similar, previous incident, he'd been injured when he was dragged by a car for 100 yards – and feeling empowered by Trumpian rhetoric, etc. And I think he was angry over his past experience and her noncompliance and determined not to let her get away.

He probably shouldn't have been allowed to continue as an ICE agent.

That said, if it's important to stop people in cars, why can't ICE agents aim for the car tires, engine, or the person's shoulder? Or just check the license plate and arrest her later?

[PatSeg]

15. And the way real police would have handled it

probably would be to tell her to turn off the engine, put her hands where he can see them, and slowly exit the vehicle. You rarely see a cop open the car door or stick his hands inside the window (which is why Jonathan Ross had been dragged in a previous incident) .

Of course, in a more realistic scenario, she would have been told to move her vehicle because she's blocking the road and the officer would have waved her on.

[Nasruddin]

29. The next question for the real police

How would you handle a POI who doesn't follow instructions but flees?
You have overwhelming force in the area.

Wouldn't the real police call in the problem and ask for support apprehending? The vehicle could easily be id'd if it wasn't already, and it should be possible to block / trail the vehicle.

[PatSeg]

49. Yes, that makes more sense

though probably not as much fun for these gun-totting cop wannabes. I wish more actual police officers would speak out about how poorly trained these agents are and explain how experienced, well trained officers would handle such situations.

[BlueKota]

56. That was one of my questions when they mentioned his first incident!

If the agent hadn't chose to jump on the trunk and try to hang on, he wouldn't have gotten hurt. Who he was he trying to pretend he was? John Mclane in Diehard, or Martin Riggs in Lethal Weapon?

They had the make of the car. Like they couldn't have tracked the driver down even, if he drove away? Did he really think he was going to be able to stop the guy, by hanging onto the car? I guess even though he was a "trained agent," he wasn't immune to engaging in fantasy role play.

[MichMan]

57. Minneapolis PD is prohibited from assisting ICE

[Norrrm]

52. Yes. 'Real police' have explained that training says do not place yourself in front of the vehicle.

[PatSeg]

54. And trained officers know

it is dangerous to stick your head or hands inside the vehicle. The driver or passenger could be armed or the car could start pulling away. Better to let the car drive away and take their plate number.

[Jedi Guy]

48. Cops don't aim for tires, engines, or shoulders. Nor does anyone else, for that matter.

That's the sort of trick shot stuff that Hollywood has perpetuated in action movies and things like that. Any shooting course will teach to aim for center mass.

He shouldn't have had his gun out to begin with. I'm going by memory but I don't think any of the other agents had their weapons drawn. Even if they did, they definitely shouldn't have fired.

That said, the video captured by the shooter sure makes it seem like the car hit him. It sounds like an impact and a grunt and the image wobbles. I have a sneaky feeling they're going to lean on that as justification for the shooting, unfortunately.

[peachpit24]

8. Why

Why did he want to stop her from leaving? I thought ice wanted them to leave.

[maxsolomon]

16. "they" are saying she had been blocking/interfering with them all morning

they were going to arrest her.

[SunSeeker]

19. She was not there all morning, she had just dropped off her 6 year old at school. nt.

[maxsolomon]

23. Yes, I saw that information as well.

I don't understand the timeline of what Good was/was not doing that morning. did she drop off her kid AND block ICE vehicles? I don't know.

"they" have already drawn the conclusion that she was a domestic terrorist that was "cat and mouse" blocking ICE vehicles and was a threat. that's the narrative that needs to be conclusively discredited.

[Historic NY]

28. Look they knew who she was.

There are license plates on her vehicle.

[maxsolomon]

40. her identity isn't the issue

Keith Ellison, MN AG, said on Democracy Now this morning that the Goods were "observing" ICE that morning. which they're allowed to do.

the admin and their online hordes are seizing on that, contending the Goods were actively obstructing ICE vehicles and driving at ICE goons, and basically saying they deserved to be shot.

i don't understand what they were or weren't doing that morning, but regardless, i don't think it was necessary to shoot Renee Good in the face.

[SunSeeker]

33. She was not blocking ICE vehicles, other ICE vehicles drove around her, except for the ICEholes in the pickup.

It all occured after she dropped her son off at school. Here is a timeline of the incident:

https://abcnews.go.com/US/minneapolis-ice-shooting-minute-minute-timeline-renee-nicole/story?id=129021809

[maxsolomon]

41. thanks.

I'm sure that won't settle anything in post-truth America, but I appreciate the link.

[questionseverything]

53. From the time the silver truck pulls up until her execution is 5 seconds

That shows it’s premeditated

[Tbear]

34. She lived in the neighborhood.

[SunSeeker]

37. Yup. When ICE shot her, a bystander screamed, "You killed my neighbor!" nt

[unblock]

9. And another question - why did the first ice goon immediately try to open her door?

When is that ever a good idea?

Real officers would start with a calm greeting and calmly ask questions, ask to see license and registration, maybe ask her to turn off the car, etc.

Trying to open the door as a first action is incredibly aggressive and unsurprisingly scared the crap out of her.

Ice basically created the situation they claimed they needed to kill to save themselves from,

[John1956PA]

11. Exactly. As he stormed over, he shouted, "Get out of the f****** car!"

[unblock]

14. Stellar de-escalation technique

[Talitha]

13. Why? Because all ICE agents are untrained goons.

[leftstreet]

17. I'd like to see drug test results on them

Hitler's goons were hopped up on speed, and encouraged by their commanders to use it

[SunSeeker]

21. Jonathan Ross was not untrained. He was a Trump emboldened murderer.

He had years of training and ignored it all, letting his rage take over. He shot her to keep her from getting away, it's as simple as that.

[Historic NY]

45. The short FLETC course instead of the normal 13 week one

https://www.fletc.gov/sites/default/files/fletc-studenthandbook.pdf]

They sort of skip all that conduct stuff.

[kentuck]

18. I noticed that also.

First thing he did was draw his weapon.

And stood just enough in front of the vehicle so he could step out of the way if she attempted to drive away. Which she tried to do. He was locked and loaded, ready to murder her in an instant.

[ALBliberal]

22. Would really like to know what her wife has to say

regarding the moments leading up to it. But? Not until and if she is ready to speak about it. Feel horrible for her. Thank god their son was not in the car.

[maxsolomon]

26. I'd like that too.

I'd imagine the FBI is working her over in interviews.

[ALBliberal]

38. Yes. She seems like a strong woman that won't be pushed

around and hopefully lawyered up. You never know what the as$h@les have up their sleeves.

[littlemissmartypants]

24. I believe she's not the first person he's killed.

[moniss]

25. He was also fumbling with his phone while having

his gun drawn. I don't care about his supposed 10 years of working for them. Bottom line he comes off as a goon with an itchy trigger finger looking for an excuse to kill. Look at his reaction afterward. Never a more "I could care less" reaction have I ever seen.

[ALBliberal]

39. If being drug by a car was so traumatic why is

he on the job? Placing himself stupidly by a car? Arghhhh

[moniss]

43. Exactly. nt

[JustAnotherGen]

30. He moved with intent

He was calm. He wanted to kill someone so he did.

[RobinA]

35. Calm Before

during and after. It was weird, I thought, how he walked over to the car after shooting her and then walked back calmly up the street and got into a car and drove off.

[JustAnotherGen]

50. And don't forget

He called her a 'fucking bitch' right afterwards.

His wife gets beat on the regular. He's that type of demon.

[Jilly_in_VA]

31. Because he had it and he could

When you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

[underpants]

32. Yes and think about the video from mostly behind the car.

Basically in the line of fire.

[Emile]

36. Pretty simple, he wanted to kill someone.

[Liberal In Texas]

42. These guys are frequently running around with guns drawn and pointing rifles

for no particular reason. Except to intimidate the public.

They're all a bunch of wanna be Rambos.

[Skittles]

55. gun humping POS

biggest cowards on the planet