General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsCan a President, who is a convicted felon, give a legal pardon to anyone?
I do not know what the letter of the law states but it seems that he would be disqualified from giving anyone a "pardon". His criminal record should prevent that from happening?
But, I suppose it would need to go to the Supreme Court if anyone challenged the premise?
In the first place, he has never gone thru the proper channels for giving pardons to anyone. In my opinion, all of his pardons should be null and void.
Could a future president sign an executive order declaring all his "pardons" illegal and meaningless?
Donald Trump himself has stated that Biden's pardons were not legal because they were signed by an "auto pen".
Blues Heron
(8,269 posts)Trump will be resigning soon though thats why hes pardoning like theres no tomorrow. Hes quite sick
MineralMan
(150,557 posts)Raven123
(7,478 posts)Article II, Section 2, Clause 1:
The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any Subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.
dickthegrouch
(4,265 posts)The language is sloppy enough to cover the exception in my opinion.
It doesn't say who had to have been impeached, or for what.
Raven123
(7,478 posts)I interpret the Constitution as saying he cannot void an impeachment. If someone is convicted via an impeachment, POTUS cannot pardon that individual.
I could be wrong
Paladin
(32,225 posts)EdmondDantes_
(1,317 posts)The relevant part of the Constitution mentions only that it's for federal offenses and can't be used in matters of impeachment. There's nothing about an executive order overruling any pardons, and frankly we need to get away from ruling by executive order since we aren't a monarchy and the ever more powerful executive is problematic. There's no process requirements.
[The President] shall have Power to Grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.
As for Trump claiming an autopen disqualifies anything, he lies a lot. Relying on his rantings isn't a good idea.
Jedi Guy
(3,404 posts)The only real limit is that the President can only issue pardons for federal crimes. There's nothing saying he can't pardon himself, either, though that would likely be challenged.
His status as a convicted felon is irrelevant. It didn't bar him from running for the office or holding it so it doesn't stop him from exercising any of the powers of the Presidency. In theory, he could have run for office from a prison cell. The only thing that could have barred him from running is if he'd been convicted after being impeached.
The unfortunate reality is that the Framers never imagined someone like Trump running for President, let alone actually holding the office. I think they worked on the assumption that anyone holding the office would be an honorable person rather than an amoral glob of Cheetoh dust roughly shaped to look like a person.
GJGCA
(206 posts)(The President has lost the November, 2028 election.)
He issues a full pardon for all acts commited up to the moment by the Vice President.
The President signs a letter of resignation, with immediate effect.
The just pardoned Vice President is sworn in and is now President.
The President issues a full pardon (as above) for the former President.
Scene closes at 11:55pm, January 19...
Disclaimer: IANAL so maybe there's a flaw in the above. Also, if the last-minute-ness of it ruins it, just dial the clock back a week or a month.
Jedi Guy
(3,404 posts)So a more likely hypothetical might be that the GOP runs Vance in 2028 and he goes on to lose. Trump pardons him, resigns, and is then pardoned in turn by now-President Vance, who finishes the remainder of Trump's term until the President-elect is inaugurated.
On paper, there's nothing to stop Trump and Vance from doing exactly that, both for each other and for any other cronies they care to protect on their way out the door. It would dodge a challenge to a self-pardon, though I'm not convinced a challenge would succeed anyway since the Constitution doesn't say a President can't pardon himself.
I think odds are pretty decent that we'll see a slew of pardons from Trump on the way out the door. It won't be because he cares about his underlings or feels any loyalty to them, of course, because that's not how he rolls. It'd be to make sure they don't get loaded up with charges from the next administration's DoJ. Even if he's pardoned himself or been pardoned by Vance, he wouldn't want that kind of testimony happening about his time in office since he can avoid it so easily and it'd be a cheerfully hoisted middle finger to an incoming Democratic President.
31st Street Bridge
(62 posts)a convicted felon would be barred from running for office entirely.
kimbutgar
(26,721 posts)For his crimes against humanity?
kentuck
(115,067 posts)....which said that no man could be a judge to himself. Why do we even ask such questions? It was directed to King John. Is that no longer relevant?
kimbutgar
(26,721 posts)But would you honestly put it past the orange piggy to pardon himself?
kentuck
(115,067 posts)I am sure.
Jedi Guy
(3,404 posts)The Magna Carta isn't the law of the land, though, so anything it has to say absolutely isn't relevant. The Constitution is, and the Constitution doesn't expressly say a President can't pardon himself. That being the case, he probably can even though it wasn't what the Framers envisioned.
It probably won't matter, anyway. As GJGCA pointed out upthread, all Trump has to do is pardon Vance, resign so Vance becomes President, and then accept a pardon from Vance. That sidesteps the self-pardon question entirely and is clearly Constitutional, though deeply cynical and abusive of the intent of the power to pardon.