Tyrants like Trump always fall - and we can already predict how he will be dethroned

[babylonsister]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/apr/27/donald-trump-us-constitution-president


Tyrants like Trump always fall – and we can already predict how he will be dethroned
Simon Tisdall
The US constitution protects incompetence. But don’t underestimate the self-destructive power of the president’s own hubris
Sun 27 Apr 2025 01.00 EDT

snip//

Of all the tools in the tyrant-toppling toolbox, none are so potentially decisive as those supplied by Trump’s own stupidity. Most people understand how worthless a surrender monkey “peace deal” is that rewards Putin and betrays Ukraine. Does Trump seriously believe his support for mass murder in Gaza, threats to attack Iran and reckless bombing of Yemen will end the Middle East conflict and win him a Nobel peace prize?

By almost every measure, Trump’s chaotic global tariff war is hurting American consumers, damaging businesses and reducing US influence. It’s a boon to China and an attack on longtime allies and trading partners such as Britain. Trump’s big tech boosters know this to be so, as do many Republicans. But they dare not speak truth to power.

And then there’s his greed – the blatant, shameless money-grubbing that has already brought accusations of insider trading, oligarchic kleptocracy, and myriad conflicts of interest unpoliced by the 17 government oversight watchdogs Trump capriciously fired. His relatives and businesses are again pursuing foreign sweetheart deals. Corruption on this scale cannot pass unchallenged indefinitely. Avarice alone may be Trump’s undoing.

All this points to one conclusion: as a tyrant, let alone as president, Trump is actually pretty useless – and as his failures, frustrations and fantasies multiply, he will grow ever more dangerously unstable. Trump’s biggest enemy is Trump. Those who would save the US and themselves – at home and abroad – must employ all democratic means to contain, deter, defang and depose him. But right now, the best, brightest hope is that, drowning in hubris, Trump will destroy himself.

[choie]

1. Thats all well and good

but much destruction must we endure before he destroys himself?

[Cirsium]

35. That is the important thing

Of course they are clowns; cruel, murderous clowns. Of course they all always fall eventually. But after how many deaths? It took 50 million when buffoons and clowns took over in Europe in the 30's.

[Javaman]

43. To the extent that it starts effecting members of congress

Then they will stop him.

Until then the rest of us can burn

[dutch777]

2. Not enough spin doctors to hide the lies & failures. Xi etc. calling his bluff really helps. The rest of us....

...will suffer in the meantime and the great brand that was America will take decades to rebuild even if we never see the likes of a Trump again.

[dchill]

49. "...even if we never see the likes of a Trump again."

It just CAN'T happen. CAN'T.

[bucolic_frolic]

3. The grand larceny bus is loaded with monied elites and Trump is driving

More alarming is the dismantling of the Federal government, the traditional regulator of law, business, the economy, civil rights. Only some courts work the way they once did.

[CrispyQ]

4. Also, he has a cabinet full of lunatics, frauds & failures.

Last time he had real people, much as we disagreed with them & some of them weren't so competent, but they at least were sane & still believed (mostly) in the Constitution. Unfortunately, they are also what kept people from seeing just how horribly incompetent Trump is. Well not us, of course, We knew it when he came down the escalator.

[Fiendish Thingy]

5. There are only two things, other than death, that could shorten Trump's term

1) the collapse of Social Security/Medicare

2) a tariff-induced recession so severe that Republicans in Congress get “yippy” and start having panic attacks about severe losses in the 2026 midterms. Only a collective fear of losing re-election that outweighs the fear of being primaried by a more extreme MAGA opponent, or physical threats from MAGA loyalists will push congress to act to remove Trump.

Other than possibly invading another country, no other act of hubris or incompetence will put Trump at risk of removal.

[Trueblue1968]

34. I would guess ..... #DroolingDon is playing golf at mar a largo and he is hit by a huge bit of space debris

[Cirsium]

36. How?

How would those things bring him down?

[dchill]

50. It's in the post:

"...Republicans in Congress get “yippy” and start having panic attacks..."

[Cirsium]

53. and then...

They get “yippy” and start having panic attacks and then they do what?

[RockCreek]

6. What about those who don't end in grief?

The article begins "Tyrants come to a sticky end, or so history suggests. Richard III and Coriolanus made bloody exits. More recently, Saddam Hussein went to the gallows, Slobodan Milosevic went to jail, Bashar al-Assad went into exile. Libya’s Muammar Gaddafi was run to ground in a sewer. Tyranny, from the Greek túrannos (“absolute ruler”), is typically fuelled by hubris and leads ineluctably to nemesis. Tyrants are for toppling. Their downfall is a saving grace."

But what about those who don't? I'm no historian, but I suspect there is a long list. Particularly considering the large number of Tyrants in history.
Stalin?
The House of Saud?
Rulers of some of the former Soviet "Stan" republics?
South American dictators?
I'm throwing out possibilities here.

I'd like to know about former democracies or near democracies whose leaders went authoritarian and what happened.
Those may be the applicable cases.

[peacebuzzard]

9. South America is full of

sticky ends stories of wannabe lords of democracy. Here is a brief one:
Fernando Collor (Brazil) was a popular vote president who was handsome to look at. (popular vs. our system of electoral)
Dude couldn't even string a sentence together without spitting all over himself with bad grammar. (Sound familiar?) In addition, he quit before he was impeached. His crime was far less than what the orange one has done, which we can visibly see and paper trail account for.
He did not avoid jail and was put away for some time; he is addicted, though, and after all his 7 years jail time, has won another political position in his home state. His sons are out there, too, running for political positions. Grifting runs and is learned in the family, it seems.

[RockCreek]

10. Uggh.

And all fellow grifters snd collaborators need to be dealt with too. Otherwise the cycles continue...

[Justice matters.]

20. Hitler ended his own after causing over 20 million deaths.

Took him 25 years of ruthless hate to do it before his violent foolishness destroyed his own country almost to the ground.

Lessons should be learned from his demise... but it seems reading is not popular enough these days.

[Self Esteem]

28. Just look at Venezuela.

Maduro has been in power now for 12 years and there's no sign of him leaving anytime soon. He came to power fairly legitimately, winning a very narrow election in 2013 and now every election is a sham. He's not going anywhere any time soon.

[MadameButterfly]

55. Long or short

while they live it is in fear. A dictator doesn't retire. He doesn't move freely. He surrounds himself with a protective guard which he can never be without. Assassination attempts abound. Some manage to make it to a natural death, but they don't live a natural life.

[muriel_volestrangler]

61. Franco and Salazar stayed in power for decades in Spain and Portugal, until ill health or death caught up with them

It took world war for Hitler and Mussolini to fall.

(Strange that the author lists Coriolanus as a "tyrant"; his historicity is not definite, but in the general story, or in Shakespeare's play, he's never in sole charge of Rome, and so not a "tyrant". He was a senior general who thought Rome was being too generous to the plebeians, so he defected to a rival city and led an assault on Rome which was about to succeed. But the story goes that his mother and/or wife pleaded for mercy for Rome, and he withdrew.)

[Paladin]

7. From The Guardian to God's ears---just as soon as possible. (nt)

[edhopper]

8. Diocletian, Henry VIII, Ghengis Khan, Stalin

did not fall, they died in power.
Hitler and Mussolini from their actions against other nations, not from internal dissent.
Tyrants do not always fall.

[Silver Gaia]

11. They were all much smarter and more competent in their evil.

He is a bumbling fool, especially in comparison. That seems to be a compelling difference. I know you are arguing that they didnt fall. But perhaps this is partially why. Some, like Henry VIII were in positions difficult to fall from until death anyway.

[edhopper]

12. How will Trump fall

when all with any power to do something support him?

[Silver Gaia]

32. If they remain that way, he won't.

But I don't see that continuing as he continues to fall apart at the seams. Big donors will flinch when they start bleeding money, and they are. Congress faithful will rethink when reelection looks iffy, and it is. He is not infallible as he perches precariously on the heap of shit he has created. Our job is to keep up the pressure. We can and we will. It's not hopeless. Watch Rachel Maddow's final few 100 days shows!

[bdamomma]

41. Exactly

Keep up the pressure!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If things continue to get worse people will continue to be out in the streets. General strike should be considered.

[Magoo48]

38. And if millions of us don't take sustained, direct action to push those in power to react, they won't react strongly eno

[MadameButterfly]

15. Hitler destroyed himself because of his own hubris

and Trump has many of his traits. The US also has a strongly entrenched democracy--most countries that fall to dictators don't have our history. I'm betting on Trump falling. I hope he does it before he dies because I don't want any dignity left if it falls to Vance. Better if they both fall, with a Democratic House waiting in line.

[edhopper]

16. His hubris

in starting a global war. Not from domestic opposition.
Do you see another country taking down Trump?
Do you see anyone with any real power (Like the GOP Congress) going after him?
I don't.

[usonian]

26. Do you see another country taking down Trump?

Last edited Sun Apr 27, 2025, 02:50 PM - Edit history (1)

Yes.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=20215296

China, Russia, Iran and North Korea could paralyze the country in a minute with hack attacks against a defense fighting DEI rather than foes.

Same for the military defense.

He opened the barn door. No doubt to create another 9/11 so he can claim (if not get) dictatorial power.

These are catastrophic but he doesn't care.

Only his power matters.

These scenarios must be prevented. How?

That's the supreme question. Pun unintended.

[MadameButterfly]

54. Trump is starting a global economic war

and maybe a few real wars here and there: allying with Russia in Ukraine and on to Europe, Panama, Greenland (and Denmark and NATO), and Canada. Our military weaponry is supreme but I don't see our soldiers eager for any of these battles. I don't see him getting away with using our soldiers as cannon fodder like Putin is doing in Ukraine and then expecting them to enforce his illegal orders in the US against Americans peacefully protesting.

Yes, I think Europe, China, and their allies will defeat the US economically and that may take down Trump.

I suspect that half the Republicans in Congress already revile him and his policies but are afraid to act. I think there may come a time when Republicans fear supporting what Trump is doing more than they fear going against Trump. It takes only a handful of Republicans in Congress to turn this around. A larger number protects them from the MAGA brownshirts. Some event, someone with the courage to stand up may be a tipping point.

The NLRB whistleblower is standing up to him and where this goes is important.
Courts are going after him.
Real power in the end is that which can be enforced. When it all plays out, what will the military do? Will they answer to Trump or the constitution? We must make sure at least that they know the difference. We must make sure they know they have a choice.

[raccoon]

46. It took 12 years to get Hitler out of power.

And years of a horrible war, many military and civilian deaths….

[MadameButterfly]

52. We cannot let Trump consolidate

power like Hitler did. Our best chance to turn it around is early while we have media to expose the corruption. Note that we are not in economic ruin from losing a recent World War, nor do we have a long prior history of monarchy. We have a much better chance than Germany did.

But the parallels between the psychological make up of the 2 men remain. The hubris that did Hitler in can do in Trump even if it's not in exactly the same scenario. We'll have no one to rescue us as Europe did, but Trump can overplay his hand like Hitler did. He may start invading other countries while his control is tenuous at home. He has so many plans that will tank the economy that his supporters will fall away, rich and poor. He may soon be exposed as a Russian spy as the whistelblower complaint from NLRB plays out.

At some point the support of SCOTUS, and even the military will be in question. If every soldier has a family member on the streets from economic ruin, or being deported, or if they are asked to help invade Ukraine, or Canada, or to fire on Americans they know personally who are peacefully demonstrating, at some point they may refuse.

I don't relish the idea of any of this happening. It could be truly horrible. OR. The courts could stop Trump from every illegal thing he is trying to do. And SCOTUS won't let Trump put judges in jail. And the marshalls won't arrest Supreme Court judges. And the military won't obey illegal orders to enact martial law just because judges are being Judges.

[Meowmee]

31. There were multiple internal attempts on H's life supposedly around 42 we know of

Last edited Mon Apr 28, 2025, 09:02 AM - Edit history (1)

They all failed, many because he already had too much power/support. The most famous was Operation Valkyrie in 1944. There may be others we don't know about.

This page only lists 23...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_attempts_on_Adolf_Hitler

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Valkyrie

6 Times Hitler Was Almost Assassinated:

https://www.history.co.uk/article/killing-hitler-the-many-assassination-attempts-on-adolf-hitler#:~:text=The%20dictator%20had%20been%20lucky,it%20all%20for%20the%20Fuhrer.

[bdamomma]

42. The felon is

making many enemies. I won't say anymore.

[dalton99a]

13. Realistically speaking, our only hope is slippery stairs

[UTUSN]

14. Big K&R!

[Crowman2009]

17. He'll be dethroned by his own cardiovascular system.

I mean he pushing 80, weighs 250+ lbs, and constantly eats McDonald's. Eventually his heart organ will be what does him in.

[Self Esteem]

29. Sure but when?

People have been predicting his death since his first term.

Trump can likely live another ten years-plus... what damage is he going to do in that time?

[Joinfortmill]

33. I'd say he's tipping more towards 290 to 300.

[usonian]

18. I posted some scenarios recently.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=20215296

Time to update?

In short, the incompetence of his hires is probably to set up a 9/11 kind of event (it sure looks like that) so he can declare (whether or not he can get it!!! He wants to push that button) martial law or the insurrection act.

The failure might fail!!

I do not count on his self-destruction by sheer incompetence. It took Hitler too long and cost too many lives. And we'd be left with Satan Junior.

Perhaps the ramp up to catastrophe will break his legislative cult following, and neuter his administration, without legislative backing. That's the peaceful way, though difficult. It will take UNIFIED messaging, not just a few brave souls spreading the word without party backing.

I mean it. GET OFF YOUR FUCKING ASSES, DNC and unify the messsge. You can lead a team to victory or sit in the locker room negotiating disputes over who chooses the locker room music.

LEAD or just go away. This is war, not clubhouse checkers tournament. And engage every former president and leader.

I am calling you chicken.

[ihaveaquestion]

19. Stories about corruption are the only ones that will break through to the other side...

They only notice things that affect themselves, so the right is mostly ok with human rights violations and unfair policies that harm others. Not enough of them may be affected to tip the balance toward ousting him in time to prevent the country's collapse.

Right wing or left, everyone recognizes it and no one likes corruption. We need to talk up the grifting, and push it into their faces. It's sometimes hard to explain financial wrong-doing, but we need to break it down for the masses... think creatively and get it on a sign for protesting. Explain it to your neighbors as best you can.

It's the CORRUPTION, stupid!

[TomCADem]

21. The North Koreans Just Need to Be Patient!

nt

[mchill]

22. Just a side note

I’m a retired federal worker (from outside DC) and keep in touch with my former agency as well as another in a different cabinet (Department). For now, the permanent employees (minus a few probationary who chose not to come back) are still on the job, but we may only have til 9/30/25 til completion of the RIF. Whatever needs to be done, it needs to happen before federal agencies have been decimated.

[LudwigPastorius]

23. Some very bright journalists have said the same of Trump.

Keith Olbermann said his demise was immanent 8 years ago. Yet, here we are.

There have ALWAYS been people who will prop Trump up.

[yellowcanine]

24. Riding in a tumbril on the way to the guillotine?

[Ping Tung]

25. IMHO. His own party will turn against him after a sweeping defeat in '26 just to save thieir own sorrry asses.

The Republicans will be fractured between MAGAs and somewhat civilized conservatives. It will be messy as they try to find an acceptable middle ground with both sides trying to sabotage each other when trying to pass bills.

Trump will be helpful to both sides in his efforts to destroy the non-MAGAs.

[Exp]

27. We all know this route is not sustainable. nt

[Meowmee]

30. They don't say how he will destroy himself though do they?

Nearly 10 years we are plagued by this psycho and no real sign of him being stopped etc. although we see it posted here over and over again. It is getting pretty tedious. Maybe I will start a count of how often that gets posted here to keep track.

[AZ8theist]

51. Don't go on Youtube, then......

My Youtube feed has......EACH AND EVERY DAY........more videos of "Trump destroyed!, Trump handed devastating news!! Trump in fear!! "Trump this, Trump that" on and on and on. Obvious click bait with underwhelming evidense.

But I'm with you. I'm sick of his "imminent" demise. Just call me when the treasonous pig moron is dead.

[OldBaldy1701E]

59. You may be waiting for a long time.

Since we all seem to want this to end, but we don't seem motivated enough to make it end.

But, that's okay... the wealthy will survive and that is what is important, right?

Right??

[I_UndergroundPanther]

37. I hope when

Trump goes down he takes the entire gestalt of conservatism with him. We need more than 2 parties why must one be “conservative” thier ideas are backwards useless and hinder progress and they serve the rich not the people, besides there are too many narcissists on the right for any party they invent with the same old ideas to be useful or not a threat to democracy again in the future.

Wipe out the right’s blight.

As for impeaching trump the republicans cling to power and they are narcissists and cowardly and greedy. I don’t see any sense of morality, justice or sanity in any of them.

Trump will have to physically be taken out. Dragged out alive or dead to stop him. And wealth and asset accumulation MUST be capped so nobody could afford to buy the president, period.

[Hekate]

39. All respect to The Guardian, but not soon enough, and horrendous damage is already done

If we get rid of all of the trumpistas tomorrow I would rejoice, but there wil still be at least a generation’s worth of damage to repair — and I won’t be here to see it.

[bdamomma]

40. The felon

better hurry up and do it!!!!!!!!! and take those Project 2025 goons and Leonard Leo and his Opus Dei too.

[malaise]

44. K & R

Yesssss!

[CitizenZero]

45. Bookmarked

Good article.

[Karasu]

47. I'm much more concerned about the "when" than the "how," considering what's already happened in 3 fucking months.

[OhioBack2Blue]

48. When he finally passes...

The Reich wing will glorify him just like a Reagan. St. Ronnie will be joined by St. Donnie. Nothing will ever happen to bring all these people to justice. The rich don't like messes and this is a huge one they let get far too out of control.

[orleans]

56. "drowning in hubris" -- forget that. i'd rather he do a slip and fall and drown in his pool (asap like tomorrow)

or maybe someone could accidentally give him a good shove into the water

just spitballing

[CitizenZero]

57. I Am Somewhat Skeptical

Hitler ruled for 12 years. Mussolini more than 20 years. Putin has been in charge of Russia for decades now. Trump admittedly has been around for a number of years. I think given his age and physical condition he is likely to die of natural causes while in office. I hope that we find some other legal reason to remove him first though. If we can retake the Congress in 2026 we might have a shot at impeaching him.

[calimary]

58. A "tyrant-toppling toolbox". I like it!

Both the idea and the way it’s expressed!

[blubunyip]

60. If he ups and dies in office

he gets away with it and nothing changes. So I don't want him to die right now.

Whether he will be removed is the question. I give it no more than 50-50 odds but will continue to hope for that to happen. Even if he is gone, the damage is done and the oligarchs will double down. Whatever happens to Shitler the fight continues, until we ensure that this democracy cannot be so easily hijacked.

"Corruption on this scale cannot pass unchallenged indefinitely." Yes, it can. His henchmen and followers support avarice. No morals, no scruples, no conscience. They have extreme wealth and power. The forces against everything-- everything we care about --are very strong. After what we've seen recently, I don't underestimate what they would do, with or without the deranged orange pustule and his feces flinging shitshow.

Project 2025 has a lot of supporters. De-throning the mad king is not going to get to the sick heart of this. He's just doing their bidding, and Putin's.

[D23MIURG23]

62. The writer is contradicting himself.

He talks about how impeachment and 25th amendment are unlikely, but says Trump is going to "destroy himself" with his own stupidity. What is the mechanism for that exactly?

Seems a little bit optimistic to imagine he's just going to forget to breathe, or have an accident with a loaded gun. He has secret service to protect against that kind of thing.